to think it's not terribly helpful to keep referring to parents who haven't MMR'd as "whack jobs"...

[MsGillis]

..or morons, or unfit parents, or up there with people who drink and drive?

I appreciate that people have very strong feelings around the subject, but I think that we need to understand that there are a significant number of parents who didn't/haven't vaccinated, not because they are crystal waving nutjobs, but because they are actually scared shitless and paralysed into indecision?

Surely there are ways and means to communicate information, and arrogantly shouting about how one person is right and anyone who disagrees is all kinds of nobhead is not going to be conducive in opening up reasonable dialogue?

[Fecklessdizzy]

Actually survival of the fittest in the Darwinian sense means survival of the most suitable for that particular environment not the fittest in the healthy-gym-bunny sense. ( I'll get my anorack ... )

It's amazing how some people will believe random internet wibblings over established medical advice ...

[georgedawes]

Well quite, why have any medical treatment whatsoever? Just survival of the fittest is how it should be.

I was walking through our local graveyard the other day and spent some time reading the gravestones. It's so humbling how many children there are buried in churchyards across the country, from only a couple of generations ago. Most would have died from treatable and preventable diseases. Medical science has transformed all of our lives, we should celebrate that.

[labtest]

Not when they are on chemo or immunosuppressed due to disease!

[georgedawes]

I agree with waynetta that there are other ways to help immunity in terms of things like probiotics and a healthy lifestyle etc.

Are you talking about measles specifically or illness in general? Clearly being healthy helps to prevent illness, however, measles is one of the most infectious diseases there is. You can drink as many yakults as you want, but if you're not vaccinated and come in to contact with someone who has it, you'll catch it too.

[georgedawes]

Well we all know it's a government/medical/big pharma conspiracy Laqueen.

[Fecklessdizzy]

The bloke who started this whole sorry saga was a Health Care Professional too, right up until the point he was struck off the medical register for agrevated stupidity ...

[overprotection]

No OP it's not a terribly helpful statement, but neither is the statements "chocolate tastes nice". It's just a statement of fact.

[ScottyDoc]

How can you say that because you are around someone with measles that you will inevitably catch it? That depends on the individual entirely! My kids have been around others with very infectious illnesses and didnt catch anything whilst others did catch it. It's not always guaranteed. And I didn't mean Yakult in terms of probiotics, I meant the higher nature powder that naturopathic doctors recommend. It's strong and I take it myself as well as being vaccinated.

[ExRatty]

Fecklessdizzy

I think the entire case surrounding Andrew Wakefield was rather more complex than covered by aggravated stupidity.

I have aggravated stupidity and it's fairly simple

[mathanxiety]

Which came first, the anti vax movement or Andrew Wakefield? Or lawyers handling cases on behalf of autistic children with their eyes on the large judgements they hoped to secure and the percentage that would find its way into their bank accounts?

[georgedawes]

Do you know anything about measles Scotty Doc? Seriously? It is a fact to say it is very highly contagious. You can take all the probiotic tablets you want, but that won't change that fact.

Serious question - do you know much about smallpox.

[Fecklessdizzy]

Exratty You can spell aggravated ( unlike me ) so you can't be all that seriously stricken!

[lottieandmia]

What really pisses me off are the arrogant people telling others that the MMR is the only thing that prevents measles and that single vaccines don't work. Which is, of course rubbish. Unless you want to believe that until the MMR was introduced in the late 80s, vaccines against these illnesses didn't work

[BlueberryHill]

Georgedawes this is comment from the Guardian website.

The situation in Swansea seems to be a backlash by the government to punish parents whose children didn't have the MMR vaccine due to fears of autism, a lifelong condition. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but it seems a bit strange that there has suddenly been this big outbreak of measles in one area and a compulsory vaccination programme has been introduced. It's almost like a warning to parents to just do as they are told.

So the outbreak in Swansea isn't due to the low vaccination rates in the general population but biological warfare carried out by our own Government to justify a compulsory vaccination programme. The truth is out there.

[Saski]

Count me among those curious to know Waynetta's profession.

You might find your fucked-up "keep away from sick people" rationale tested in the case of a polio outbreak. What a load of nonsense. Poor mothers in the third world would kill for the opportunity to immunize their kids against these horrific diseases. What a shame that you're so willfully ignorant.

[balia]

I thought this was interesting in terms of the dangers posed by non-vaccination to society as a whole...

Dr. Craig Ventner

[ExRatty]

I have been surprised by the language used on the BMJ website surrounding Wakefield.
The editorial went a little "Take a Break" over him which was thoroughly unsettling. I was expecting scantily clad pictures of him in a teadress at one point.

[Lazyjaney]

I came here to say whack-jobs was OTT, but reading some posters here I know think it's probably not strong enough.

I'm starting to incline to the view that these sort of people need to be exposed to the full force of natural selection. Unfortunately their stupidity impacts innocent people too, so one can't leave them to their own devices.

[Softlysoftly]

Probiotics? Leaky gut syndrome? Survival of the fittest?

I give up I truly fucking do.

I don't think not vaxers are idiots I think they are amazingly selfish because by not vaccinating they are making the choice for others to risk infection. They are putting MY baby at risk LABTESTS dd at risk hundreds of other children at risk.

It's a bubble you live in where the risk isn't that great because the diseases aren't rife anymore. I understand those in 1999 not vaccinating because media has a huge influence but now?

Selfish selfish selfish.

Measels in the UK could have been a thing of history like Smallpox and polio of everyone vaccinated fact.