to think it's not terribly helpful to keep referring to parents who haven't MMR'd as "whack jobs"...

[MsGillis]

..or morons, or unfit parents, or up there with people who drink and drive?

I appreciate that people have very strong feelings around the subject, but I think that we need to understand that there are a significant number of parents who didn't/haven't vaccinated, not because they are crystal waving nutjobs, but because they are actually scared shitless and paralysed into indecision?

Surely there are ways and means to communicate information, and arrogantly shouting about how one person is right and anyone who disagrees is all kinds of nobhead is not going to be conducive in opening up reasonable dialogue?

[LaVolcan]

No such luck - I only managed either two or three days (can't remember). I wouldn't have minded three weeks off at the time. (I did manage a couple of weeks off when I got flu a couple of years later, and felt absolutely wiped out by it).

Giving babies breast milk is beneficial, I didn't think there was much doubt about that now?

[MsGillis]

What also doesn't help is the news coverage about a month ago with regard to the swine flu vaccine that was rushed out and has since caused problems. It's all well and good telling people to blindly place their trust and whatever they're told but there have been incidents where this hasn't gone so well...

[grants1000]

It was a horrible time back in 2002 when my DS was due to have his first round of injections (he's now a very tall, moody and fabulous about to be 11 yo!) my own GP was unsure and said singles were fine, just get him vaccinated, being the most important thing. He was unsure if he was going to do his own child who was 3 months because of the unclear and the conflicting media and lack of directive from the NHS at the time. It was all over the news, radio, TV programmes and the anti MMR lobby were very strong indeed.

Put youself in my shoes ten years ago, what would you have done? Paid for singles, took the risk or missed the MMR competely?

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

I have a 12 year old and a 10 year old. There was no doubt from my GP or me. MMR it was

[alistron1]

I've got a 16, 15, 13 and 9 year old. All vaccinated, no paralysing indecision or soul searching. All fit, strong and healthy.

[LaVolcan]

Surely there are ways and means to communicate information, and arrogantly shouting about how one person is right and anyone who disagrees is all kinds of nobhead is not going to be conducive in opening up reasonable dialogue?

I do think that this statement is worth repeating.

Years ago my health visitor stated that all children who got whooping cough became brain damaged, and I had to tell her that both me and my husband had it as babies, and as far as I knew we weren't brain damaged.

In a similar vein a vaccination would stop you getting diseases, and therefore pass the infection on, so you were being selfish not being vaccinated. She then spoilt her argument by saying that if you did get the disease it would only be mild. She couldn't answer my question about what would happen if you then passed your mild dose on.

I gave up on her at that point, so her little moral lecture didn't work. I felt that my aim would endeavour to keep my children as healthy as possible by a sound diet and lifestyle. I did vaccinate them BTW but it was after my own research.

[OrbisNonSufficit]

YABU. I'm currently 7 weeks pregnant and thanks to the idiocy of anti-vaccination parents, there is now a reasonable risk of a London measles outbreak during my pregnancy. Which, since the vaccinations I've had do NOT stop me from getting measles, increases my risk of miscarriage. I'm completely furious about this and I refuse to be anything other than incandescent in my criticism of people who do NOT have a sound reason not to vaccinate (ie immuno-compromised child). "They're paralysed into indecision" just isn't a reason, sorry. It's stupid, it's selfish, and it's justified by junk science.

[mathanxiety]

German measles is a case where the effects of exposing unintended victims by someone going about their daily life during the incubation period can be devastating -- spontaneous abortion, congenital rubella syndrome (including birth defects and neurological abnormalities).

You are contagious before, during and after the symptomatic period, so two to three weeks.

Grants1000, I had DD4 immunised 11 years ago just like her four older siblings. She got the chicken pox vaccine too, as the older ones had had the disease before she was born and there was little chance of her catching it. Since then all the DCs including DS have had HPV vaccination. DD4's turn will come next summer.

[balia]

I really don't like the use of those kinds of terms. I don't see why derogatory terms for the mentally ill are acceptable, TBH. But having said that, the only person I know who is anti-vac believes that the rubella virus is made out of ground-up aborted foetuses and that the government secretly put mercury in kids vaccines (in 'undetectable amounts' ) because they have a mercury 'lake' they have to get rid of. I wish I was making this up.

[GoblinGranny]

As I posted on the other thread that is currently running:
www.iayork.com/Images/2008/8-22-08/MeaslesDeathsUSA.png


www.topnews.in/files/measles-child.jpg

That's what you are risking for your child, and other children. But by all means, keep thinking that your child will be protected by your overwhelming belief that you are right.

[hiddenhome]

Bring back smallpox I say. That'll bloody teach everybody [angry[

Ffs just get your kids vaccinated.

[WaynettaSlobsLover]

Whether they would be infectious or not, it is a fact of life that there will always be a minority of the population who do not deal with illness well.

Now that could be something as serious as meningitis to the common cold that in SOME people results in pneumonia. laqueen I'd also like to kindly point out to you (without any of the immature faces) that most humans that contract the flu or a head cold lay 'dull' and 'listless' on the sofa for a period of time.

No matter how much you vaccinate or how much you don't, survival of the fittest is a fact. Nobody can disprove or deny it and we NEED to come into contact with disease NATURALLY to stimulate our immunity without artificially injecting copious amounts of live viruses into our blood.

You want to inject your children with them and claim it does so much good in terms of 'herd immunity' then good for you. I am heavily pregnant and my ds is recovering from mumps like I said, as well as my young dd having her second bout of chickenpox. There are many other better ways to try and strengthen a child's immune system and general health. Unfortunately due to the scaremongering and the constant dolling out of pills and medication by medical professionals instead of getting to the root cause of the problem, this is why people are being lulled into a false sense of security by vaccinating. I have mentioned on one if these threads previously that I was a child who changed after my mother gave me the MMR. I displayed psychotic behaviour and wouldn't sleep until I was almost five years of age. My stepbrother who was also given the MMR has learning difficulties and is on the Autistic spectrum. I believe fully that in some people, vaccines can be a trigger.

I'm leaving this thread because I'm happy with my choices and I think people are free to make theirs without being insulted. Good evening all

[georgedawes]

at Waynetta's post. Crikey.

Before you go please tell us what your previous health care position was.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

In RL I only know one person who could qualify as any of the negative descriptions in the op but I know several who refuse vaccines.

The crystal waving oxygen thief scum bag who fits the description ( who also believes the mercury river thing) says my child had a serious rta because of her bad behaviour in a past life because the aura sprits or some other such shit were unhappy with her.

Its the one time ever in life I have ever punched another persons face in.

[alistron1]

Waynetta - would you be happy for you and yours to be exposed to smallpox?

[crashdoll]

"Nobody can disprove or deny it and we NEED to come into contact with disease NATURALLY to stimulate our immunity without artificially injecting copious amounts of live viruses into our blood."

I'm the least scientifical person on the planet but even I know that this statement is a big fat pile of horse shit.

[crashdoll]

With regards to the OP, YANBU but I don't see much name calling going on to be honest.

[hobnobsaremyfavourite]

my god I hope you can sleep easy waynetta never mind any immune compromised individuals that have come into contact with you and your family.

[georgedawes]

Cmon Waynetta tell us what your profession is.

[hobnobsaremyfavourite]

hospital cleaner circa 1982 ?

[GoblinGranny]

WSL's attitude would be perfectly acceptable if she was the only one in danger of death or serious disability because of her choices.
That's why the Darwin Awards are funny.
Unfortunately that isn't the case, she's making decisions for others, and potentially causing harm to a much wider group.

[georgedawes]

Survival of the fittest, innit. Obviously waynetta accepts no other medical intervention at any other times, doh, the strongest will survive what about the most intelligent?

[mathanxiety]

How about exposing your children to polio, Waynetta? You could take them to some part of the world where it is endemic and see how they fare, survival-of-the-fittest-wise.