AIBU to blame social science courses for some of this hatred of MrsT

[Grinkly]

I did an OU foundation social science course once. A major part was the detrimental effects of redundancy and unemployment on individuals and the community. It was interesting and spelled out how lives can be devastated by this.

The example was a Yorkshire mining town. It was a good course but I wonder if those, unlike me, who weren't around at the time of the miners' strikes have got a skewed view of why things happened.

Billy Elliot touches on the strikes too I think. But no background info is given, as far as I remember.

Am just amazed at the vitriol - especially by those not directly affected. And it was a long time ago. Don't want to start another debate unless someone has a new point to make.

[LaVolcan]

So why should one have a state funeral and one not? Both were great women.

One was the mother of a future King. Mrs T might have thought she was queen - "we are a grandmother", but it didn't make her royal.

People would disagree whether one or both were great. I did admire Diana for her treatment of people with HIV, but I can imagine that not everyone would agree.

Mrs T - see the thousands of other threads.

[OliviaMumsnet]

A reminder of our talk guidelines
Thanks

[FasterStronger]

the whole 'she was safely ensconced in Oxford in the war' shows how objective some posters are against MT.

she was very brave in the face of the IRA attack on the hotel in Brighton.

from wikipedia:

"The Brighton hotel bombing occurred on 12 October 1984 at the Grand Hotel in Brighton, England. A long-delay time bomb was planted in the hotel by Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) member Patrick Magee, with the intention of assassinating Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and her cabinet, who were staying at the hotel for the Conservative Party conference.[1] Although Thatcher narrowly escaped injury, five people were killed (including two high-profile members of the Conservative Party) and 31 were injured.

The bomb detonated at 2:54 a.m. on 12 October. The midsection of the building collapsed into the basement, leaving a gaping hole in the hotel's façade. Firemen said that many lives were likely saved because the well-built Victorian hotel remained standing.[3] Margaret Thatcher was still awake at the time, working on her conference speech for the next day in her suite. The blast badly damaged her bathroom, but left her sitting room and bedroom unscathed. Both she and her husband Denis escaped injury. She changed her clothes and was led out through the wreckage along with her husband and Cynthia Crawford (her friend and aide) and driven to Brighton police station.[1][4]

At about 4:00 a.m., as she left the police station, she gave an impromptu interview to the BBC's John Cole, saying that the conference would go on as usual. Alistair McAlpine persuaded Marks & Spencer to open early at 8:00 a.m. so those who had lost their clothes in the bombing could get new ones. Thatcher went from the conference to visit the injured at the Royal Sussex County Hospital.[4]"

she was no coward.

[LaVolcan]

The funny thing about all this 'cowardice' is that the statement that she wasn't came from the person who believed sinking the Belgrano was legitimate, and made offensive comments about the disabled, which resulted in their posts being deleted.

None of those who personally don't like her and have said why they don't like her ever mentioned the word. So I would suggest that you and the other poster are scoring something of an own goal here.

One thing which is still forgotten is that completely innocent people were hurt. Margaret Tebbit is still disabled as a result of her injuries received at the time.

[FasterStronger]

what is the point in talking about her being at oxford university during the war then?

[FasterStronger]

so MT wasn't 'completely innocent' in relation to a terrorist group trying to murder her?

[Crinkle77]

YABU. I did social sciences for my degree and don't think that way

[LaVolcan]

The Oxford University years were mentioned in passing, because she was having a military style funeral, but that she hadn't served during the war, (or worked in other war work) when many of her contemporaries did.

This lead lazzarus to take it out of context and IMO start ranting about just about every subject under the sun. I think someone described him/her as tilting at windmills.

I haven't said anything about the IRA. Mrs Tebbit wasn't head of government, wasn't in politics herself. Unfortunately, those in politics were more vulnerable than the general public; it went with the job. It doesn't mean that they were or were not brave at the time.

But do be like Lazzarus - do take my words out of context, do try to put words and into my mouth. Do jump straight into the fallacy that if you didn't like her then you must automatically support her opponents. I have time for my Argentinian friend, mentioned above, because he put forward an argument as to why he thought she was good. You haven't put forward an argument, you have started on about supporting terrorists and tried to smear those who didn't like Mrs Thatcher with that brush.

[LaVolcan]

that should have been 'words into my mouth and thoughts into my head'

[Latara]

I'm no fan of Thatcher but i hate terrorism.

The aim of the Brighton Bomb was to kill a democratically elected PM, which is a crime against democracy and against the voting public.

I read an article a while ago about Margaret Tebbit - she is wheelchair bound as a result of the bomb; which is very hard for her to cope with.

[aldiwhore]

YABU

I've never studied social sciences and I loathe most of what Thatcher did.

[FasterStronger]

she hadn't served during the war - she was PM when Argentina invaded the Falklands. She was commander of the British forces.

and serving in WW2 does not = military funeral.

[YohedYoshoulderYonisandYotoes]

You could say, by the way OP that all learning that doesn't glorify our divine leaders is treacherous to the supreme dominance of our master race, and promote a strategy of witholding all knowledge unless it progresses the interests of the leader. Move to North Korea!

[FasterStronger]

from wiki "As a result Mrs Thatcher and her War Cabinet, meeting at Chequers the following day, agreed to a request from Admiral Sir Terence Lewin, the Chief of the Defence Staff, to alter the rules of engagement and allow an attack on the Belgrano outside the exclusion zone.[10]"

so who was in charge of the British forces? and if not MT, why does she get the blame for the sinking?

I did not say Commander I said commander.

[FasterStronger]

oh & you don't need to bless me, a half decent argument would do, if you can, thanks

[FasterStronger]

bunch of rabid delusionalists who get their knickers in a twist if this is your rational argument, I think you need to try a bit harder.

[Dawndonna]

Try reading the thread, Faster. We all know where you are politically, you espouse your beliefs on every benefit thread there is.
On this one, people have put up reasonable, reasoned and informed arguments. Read them and stop being patronising.

[FasterStronger]

dawndonna - you can say what you like - as can I. I don't have to agree with you...

[LaVolcan]

I haven't a clue who FasterStronger is, but the few posts I have read haven't persuaded me to his/her point of view.

We were asked if our opinions had been formed by social science courses. For just about all of us, as far as I can tell, the answer is no, that our opinions have mostly been formed by experience. Our experiences then get ridiculed or mocked, or we are called rabid delusionalists. You can call us what you like, but it doesn't make it so.

[FasterStronger]

I quoted Lunatic Fringe.

It's all descended into nonsense now. For a while it was interesting. yep.

[LazarussLozenge]

What an event.

Even those who protested were half way civilised (taking in to account they were protesting at somebodies funeral).

LaVolcan Tue 16-Apr-13 09:28:52

The funny thing about all this 'cowardice' is that the statement that she wasn't came from the person who believed sinking the Belgrano was legitimate, and made offensive comments about the disabled, which resulted in their posts being deleted.

The sinking was legitimate. No one has posted anything to suggest otherwise. Do you think Maggie just cuffed that descision? Or do you think she had legal advisers, political advisers, military advisers and Dennis?

She thought as she thought was right. Threat to the Task Force, threat has to go. Not 'ohh, will people like me?, will I get in for another term?'

You know what you insinuated with the whole 'Maggie went to Uni, why didn't she join up like the future Queen thing. Else you wouldn't have brought it up.

I really can't be bothered to take up the ADHD thing.