to argue with MIL about breastfeeding?

[avoidingarguments]

I have had two babies who I breastfed for 1 year each, I fed on demand. I am now pregnant with my 3rd. I mentioned to MIL I was dreading the initial 6 week period where the baby just wants to feed all the time, and she said my first two were very strange for wanting to do that, and this time hopefully I will have a normal baby who feeds every 4 hours. I should of just smiled and nodded, that is what I normally do in these situations, but I am 8 months pregnant and things like this get under my skin at the moment as I know what I am doing with my own children. My reply was that it is normal for breastfed babies to feed an awful lot in the first 6 weeks, and she said no it is not all other babies feed every 4 hours they should not be feeding all the time. I answered that the 4 hourly routine is outdated now and that the nhs say babies should be fed on demand. She got really angry and said the 4 hourly routine was invented because it worked and it worked for all her 5 children and she has bought up 5 children so she knows what she is doing and the nhs and midwives don't know anything. It actually got very heated and I know this time she will be round visiting telling my DH I am over feeding my children and babies only need 6 feeds a day (luckily my DH ignores her!). I know I am hormonal at the moment as I am 8 months gone but I wish I had just smiled and nodded at her and feel like I should not have caused an argument, I normally keep my views to myself but to be honest am sick of all her outdated advice. She will also be phoning me telling me to give the baby water or it will dehydrate I imagine as that is what she did with the last two, even phoning my DH at work on a very hot day before!! AIBU to have got involved in an argument, I should have just smiled and nodded and ignored shouldn't I?

I feel really bad tonight as I do not like arguments, and am now dreading all the comments at family events about my strange over feeding babies as all others in her family seem to do 4 hourly bottle feeds. She breastfed for a couple of weeks 4 hourly but said she was such a busy lady her milk was not good quality, I said that was because she fed 4 hourly and that just made the argument worse :( why oh why did I not just smile and nod :(

[candyandyoga]

She is an idiot. Ignore her stupid ramblings and be happy in the knowledge that you are right. I'm guessing she didn't bf? She is an idiot if she doesn't know babies who bf need little and often.

[zipzap]

When you see her when you have your baby, state up front that you are planning on bf on demand as that is current best practice and that it has worked very well for you for your previous two babies. You appreciate that when she had her dc, advice was different and she followed what was best practice for the time. You realise that feeding four hourly worked for her, but it doesn't for you and so from here on in, you are both going to have to be grown up about it and agree to differ and not talk about it again because if she tries to get you to ff on a 4 hour demand schedule for the millionth time, then you might just buy the ruddy bottles and steriliser purely to thwack her over the head with them until she listens to you it's just going to end up with everyone getting upset and you don't want that to happen again.

Also get her to tell you what advice her mum and MIL gave her to see how much things had changed between their generations - and maybe help her to see that things might also have moved on a bit between your generations!

[ratspeaker]

I think the 4 hourly feed thing came from Truby King who published books in the early 1900
When I had my first Dc in mid 1980s bf on demand was encouraged.
Except the ward cleaner who told me I shouldn't be feeding so often!

My gran asked about the feeding, I was all prepared to defend my position when she told me she had gone against the 4 hourly feeds but hadn't let on to nurses/health care, " ach i couldnae be daeing wi a greetin wean"

Wise woman my gran

[pictish]

Don't do anything. Just smile and say 'to each their own' and 'this way works well for us' and refuse to be drawn in.

You'll have to otherwise it will be fireworks.

Also avoid them as much as humanly possible while your baby is still young, and they'll be tempted to wind you up offer advice.

This too shall pass etc..

[sleepyhead]

When my mum had me in 1972 the nurses brought the babies to be fed 4 hourly and after each feed immediately weighed us. If we hadn't put on the requisite ounces then a bottle would be brought for the bf mums to use to top up. Funnily enough after 10 days, which was the length of time you stayed in at the time, virtually no-one was bf'ing.

My mum managed to persevere because a) she was like me and her own mother before her and had a huge oversupply at first, and also a very responsive supply. b) she took the advice of the more experienced mum in the bed beside her and told the nurse that I refused the bottle.

They also insisted on mums having a sleeping pill each night to ensure their rest and ff the babies. How anyone succeeded with bf under that regime is beyond me!

[avoidingarguments]

I don't know why she has gotten under my skin so much today, I think I need to just breathe and get off to bed, I just feel so wound up by her today, I think it was because I was having a great day with my 3 and 6 year old and everything was going smoothly, I got a lie in (well 7am) for once and house looked tidy and not feeling weighed down by the giant bump today, and then she comes along and puts me in a bad mood :(

Oh well I will go and try and sleep it off and try not to think to much about all the future times she will visit and the family events where she will go on about 4 hourly feeds being the best thing ever and how I am totally wrong with this 'weird demand feeding'. And don't get me started on how babies need white chocolate so they do not feel deprived, and the gravy purees and the bottles of water and not picking babies up too much and the 3 meals a day at 3 months and monster munch being perfect for little babies oh and newborns need to watch childrens tv in the bouncy chair so I can do the oh so important cleaning and iron all their babygrows (as she thinks I am lazy for not ironing every single item of clothing we own plus towels!) etc. And breath...... lol :)

[whiteandyellowiris]

probably where you went wrong was to tell her your dreading that feeding all the time stage, as you gave her the chance to put the boot in

i know it shouldnt be like that and a good mil would say, i know its tough that phase but well worth it.

dont feel bad, she started it
just dont give her a chance next time

[DorisIsWaiting]

I don't think you went far enough in the argument- she needs toi know not to mess with you!

You are a saint with coping with that much direction !

[midori1999]

Either just go back to smiling and nodding or tell her to piss right off and then blame your hormones layer....

My Mum was also told to breastfeed every 4 hours, 1 minute per side day one, 2 minutes per side day 2 etc in the 70's. She managed to BF us all for 6 weeks and god knows how she managed that long on that regime frankly! She also said everyone was formula feeding and you were 'odd' if you wanted to breastfeed.

My MIL told DH on the day I came out of hospital when DD was 2 days old, that my SIL (her other son's wife) was 'clever' for formula feeding from birth as it meant her DH could help with night feeds. DH completely shot her down in flames with a huge rant about why it wasn't 'clever' to FF at all and she then started back tracking. My DH doesn't always say the right thing, but having been in hospital for two nights up carrying the baby around and feeding her and her having needed I'VE antibiotics, I have never been so glad to hear him speak.

[formicaqueen]

ignore her or say 'thats interesting but we are happy with the way we do it thanks'

[BegoniaBampot]

That would drive me bats, think I would be far more rude then you TBH. luckily my MIL keeps her opinions to herself even though she might have thought I was weird for the constant demand feeding and feeding the baby at the table in restaurants etc, but she just let me get on with it.

[Lottapianos]

'When my mum had me in 1972 the nurses brought the babies to be fed 4 hourly and after each feed immediately weighed us. If we hadn't put on the requisite ounces then a bottle would be brought for the bf mums to use to top up. Funnily enough after 10 days, which was the length of time you stayed in at the time, virtually no-one was bf'ing.'

My gosh, that's vile! Shocking how regimented baby care used to be! And such a stressful environment for mums and babies

All you smile and nod people must be saints. I'm not a mum but my best mate has an 8 month old baby and I see how fragile her confidence is and how sensitive she is to 'we know best' type of haranguing advice. I agree with the other poster who said that this kind of meddling is down to personality, not just being of a different generation.

My own mother was full of criticism for someone we know who hadn't weaned her first baby by 3 months old. I argued with her about it coz i'm a fool and told her that the WHO advice is to start weaning at 6 months. Her response was 'well you can't go by that, can you?' Yeah, the World Health Organisation - what would they know????

[OxfordBags]

OP, she is talking absolute bollocks. All that 'feed every 4 hrs only, don't pick them up too much' crap comes from Truby King, who based his fucked-up ideas about childrearing from observing dairy calves! Apart from his ideas about timing Bfing and putting babies outside in their prams for several hours a day, all of his theories were actually discredited by the 1970s, so your MIL was pretty outdated even then!

And all her ideas about food are absolutely bonkers, she's plucked those out of her arse! Put gravy into baby purées?! They need white chocolate so as not to feel sad?! Monster Munch are the best crisps for babies?!

Is there such a thing as a best crisp for a baby at all?! FFS!

Not weaning at 3 months is not a sign of a 'slow' baby (what delightful language, not).

But look - you know all this! You sound like a great mum, really responsive, perceptive, taking the time to keep on top of current guidelines balanced with going with your natural instincts. And this is your 3rd, so you'd think she'd know to wind her neck in by now. If I were you, I'd say something along the lines of "You know, MIL, I didn't follow your advice with the first two, so why you think I'm going to go with it for the 3rd, I do not know". Followed by a Very Meaningful Stare.

When people bang on like this, I ALWAYS think it's because they secretly feel shit about their own crap choices and ideas and want to make themslves feel better by trying to make a point of how 'right' they got things (when in actual fact, they got it wrong).

[avoidingarguments]

OxfordBags I think your right she must feel bad about her own choices as she takes a very aggressive tone if I do anything differently to her (which is actually everything I do as I think her methods are nuts!!). She even gave my first born hot food and said there was no need to call it down as she needed to learn not to eat things that were hot!! (I actually took the food away and left it on the window ledge to her disgust!).

I thought she must of been out of date for her time as her first baby was born 1980 (my DH) and her last baby was born 1995. My mum was told to feed on demand (also in 1980, although she was told to give water and start solids at 3 months but she never tells me to do those things as she understands guidlines are different now.)

I actually hardly slept last night as I feel so mad that she thinks she is right all the time she has been okay for about the last 2 years since youngest turned 1 but now I will have to live through it all again! The worst are the family events as they are a couple of hours away from our home and last all day and my babies always get passed around for hours and I get told by her that they are not hungry and I feed them to much and then I end up awake all night feeding while they catch up.

I wish I knew how to handle her better but when I confronted her yesterday she actually shouted and said I was totally wrong and everyone else feeds 4 hourly in this country as it is the right way to do things. Sigh.

[WafflyVersatile]

Well as much as she is insulting you by telling you your way, following current NHS guidelines, is wrong you are insulting her about something she can't change, doing it her way, following (then)current NHS guidelines.

No one wants to hear that they did/are doing wrong by their children.

All you can say is I'm following current guidelines and avoid talking further. say 'end of discussion' if necessary.

[avoidingarguments]

My DH sticks up for me at these family events but she shouts at him in front of everyone, and shouts what would you know I have raised 5 kids all by myself I know what I am doing. And the rest of his family seem as bonkers as her and agree with her! They see us as odd as we BF, wean at about 6 months, and do not smack. And horror of horrors do not give chocolate and crisps to very young babies (I have let mine have chocolate and sometimes crisps from about 1 year, but apparantley 6 month olds should be eating whole packs of crisps and 3 months is fine for white chocolate!!) She fed my youngest tiramasu at 6 months until my DH pulled the baby away, she was like a women possessed!

[OxfordBags]

I can tell you now that people really don't leave 4 hrs between feeds for newborns, Ff or BF. I mean, some probably do, but they are hopefully in the minority. She sounds very controlling and a bit of a bully, IMHO. Your partner should be standing up to her for you.

Waffly, I get your point, but what is the OP meant to do? Upset or even harm her child so as not to make her MIL wonder if she made mistakes back when she was a new mother?! If she has an issue, she needs to be mature enough to deal with it herself, not take it out on the OP.

[avoidingarguments]

WafflyVersatile that may be a good way of dealing with her, saying well we both did the same, you followed the current guidelines of your time and I am following the current guidelines of my time. We both tried our best.

I hope I do not turn out like her, I am sure things will change a lot by the time mine have children but I am sure I would understand progress in the medical field to help improve children's health as a positive thing.

I have to see her on Sunday again, great :(

[BegoniaBampot]

you can't deal with someone like this unless you actually avoid them. I can't imagine dealing with this week in week out if it's really as bad as you say. think you should get your husband to have a serious word saying that I'd she can't shut up and stop criticising then you won't be visiting. Wouldn't leave my baby alone with her either or even with just your husband as I couldn't trust her. Luckily my MIl was the complete opposite.

[candyandyoga]

Don't go to the events?
She sounds like a nasty bully and you need to say to her she either stops or you won't see her. Time to get serious in your stance x

[nethunsreject]

Poor you, op. SHe sounds like my MIL. Luckily my own mum is fabulous.

There is no arguing with stupidity. If she brings up the topic, just say it's not up for discussion and move on to how cold the weather has been or something.

She is defensive because she needs to feel she did it RIGHT, (whatever that is ). She isn't going to shift on this as it would require her to rethink her outlook and beliefs.

[BegoniaBampot]

Also - are they pulling your leg a bit and is it banter? Do you come from a different background from them?

[DisorganisednotDysfunctional]

Relax, OP, your situation is totally mainstream. In the past century or so each generation of mothers has learnt a different way of doing most things. Baby care advice 30 years ago was completely different from what's advised today and it's annoying that your MIL isn't aware of this. Our own daughters will no doubt get different advice from what we're told today. The temptation then will be not to tell them that what you're doing now is the best way, better than whatever new stuff is being recommended.

In your shoes I'd say that to her, in a calm cheerful observational way - that what she did with her babies obviously worked well, and was what was considered best at that time - but advice has changed, just as how she did things was probably different from what her own mother did.

I was lucky, in that my M & MIL both recognised that each generation has its own rules and ideas so they didn't interfere. Doesn't mean that their way was wrong, though

I think it would do a lot of good all round (in lots of contexts) if we all recognised that there are thousands of perfectly effective ways of bringing up children, and that all of them are right.

[PlasticLentilWeaver]

Is your MIL my mother?!
Sounds like a replay of several discussions we have had in the past.