To say dv is often carried out by people who are 'charm personified'

[notnagging]

Just got me thinking. I know people who's partners seem lovely to the outside world but are monsters behind closed doors. That's the whole point. When something does happen people don't believe it.

[GinAndT0nic]

Sadandtired... you have so many stages behind you now. The naive hope that he'll change is behind you. You accept it won't change. This is a big step, so you're not fucked. You have insight to move through this.

My x was drawn to independent strong women and then instantly tried to crush them back down. I believe you that you were very independent before this.

If you walk away from a nightmare you are not "breaking up a family". He didn't nurture what he had and it disolved around him. it is your prerogative to leave a dysfunctional relationship. You are not obliged to stay with him at the expense of your own sanity and happiness just to spare him some inconvenience.

He will probably rage and rant when you leave him. Disconnect. Trying to justify your decision to him will only feed his erroneous belief that you need his permission or approval to end this relationship. You don't.

I can see the state you're in now, and I recognise it. You have a heightened sense of awareness and responsibility for his emotions and pains. When I left my x I cried, for him , ha! the thoughts of it now that I'm out of the fog. I saw it through his eyes, how self-pitying he would be, and i cried for him, the man who'd terrorised me, verbally and financially abused me for years.

You can be Independent again. You can get the old you back. but you have to prioritise YOU and your daughter over him.

[moonstorm]

Instead of the 'dead' eyes, what about the far too intense eyes? There's a man I know (in a position to see often for a little while - think postman/ neighbour's gardener type role), who gives me the creeps, but I can't say why. I am a terrible judge of character, so try not to make my mind up for a long while. He is very, very nice - chatty etc, but he looks very intently when talking (think too much eye contact) and uses my name (and my husband's when speaking to him) far to much (is that even possible?? ).

Can't decide whether I'm being silly, or picking something up... I am very bad when someone is being very, very nice not responding nicely and find it hard to keep my distance with them..

[postmanpatscat]

My ex sexually, psychologically, emotionally and financially abused me. He emotionally abuses the Dc too and eldest wont see him because she's scared to be alone with him.

He is a school governor, church goer and actively involved in the worship, volunteer at a local amateur theatre and lay visitor at an immigration detention centre.

his latest GF moved in with him recently, I wonder how long it will be before she sees the real him.

[GinAndT0nic]

Things will get easier for your family though, when he has somebody new to control. It's awful but whenever my x has a new gf we breath a sigh of relief because he sticks to arrangements and doesn't pout and sulk and make digs left right and centre.

[Jamillalliamilli]

Sadandtired you are not responsible for your (not so D)P, and the ?family? that he treats so badly breaking up will not kill him, trust me, his behaviour is learnt and all about making you feel for him instead of for your child.

As you say What he wants always comes first, any sign that isn?t happening and he uses a range of behaviours to enforce it and you?ve been ground down into accepting them.

You are responsible for her, and I?m sorry but right now you are allowing long term damage to quietly take place. He has successfully (intentionally or not) groomed you to believe that leaving his abusive behaviour is bad and wrong, and your responsibility is to him, and no one else, and that?s the lesson she?s learning too.

Breaking up with him won?t have a terrible effect on DD, it may bring short term unhappiness, because change is stressful, but staying with a man who treats her and her mum like this, while mum backs up the idea that it?s normal and the important thing is to put his wants first, live round his volatile moods and violence, now that will have a terrible effect on her.

Look at your little girl and imagine her in a relationship with someone treating her like this, what would you be saying to her?

We make mistakes, the trick is to forgive ourselves, sort them out and teach our DC?s better skills.

Call WA now. If you can?t do it for you, do it for her.

[FreudiansSlipper]

often yes but not always abusive people come in many different disguises

though a red flag even if it is just a gut feeling will often warn us very early on sadly we often ignore it or justify it as we want to see the good in people and they are good at making us see this

[GinAndT0nic]

Completely nodding along with justgettingonwithit's post, it is an exercise in psychological re-wiring the way these characters can get you to feel that your responsibility is to them. My x did it to me.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

sadandtired he woun't fucking kill himself! And if he did, well no great loss quite frankly.
He is FAR more likely to kill you.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

FWIW, my ex used to theaten to kill himself too. I still have a scar on my wrist from when I wrestled the knife off him.
Strangely, he has no scars, and is very much alive...

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

And yy to targeting strong women. I used to think what happened to me happened because I do fight back. I am a lairy, mouthy broad. I didn't initially just "take it".
Abusers see it as a challenge. They want to break you. They will do this by any means necessary.
The ONLY thing to do is walk. And fast.

[TheNorthWitch]

Moonstorm you are not a terrible judge of character. It sounds like your instincts are operating quite properly but you are second guessing yourself because your creepy acquaintance seems 'so nice'. Try reading Gavin de Becker's The Gift of Fear and learn why you should never do that. Abusers often adopt a very nice and sometimes overly personal style to hide their real motives.

In the first chapter of de Becker's book he tells of a 'very nice and helpful' stranger who offers to carry a woman's shopping up to her apartment - then rapes her. He went on to kill another woman. Nice means nothing.

This guy makes you uncomfortable - focus on that.

[moonstorm]

Thank you, The NorthWitch, I realise it's hard to give an opinion over the Internet, but having someone understand helps! I will be careful not to be alone with him (not possible to avoid totally). And if he's perfectly nice and honest, then he won't care anyway.

[BertieBotts]

I agree Pag - I feel fairly often that I "spot" abusers, but you can't always tell. There was a guy at work who I really got on with when I first started. He seemed to get a bit of stick from the other staff members and I thought they were being a bit harsh, and then one day he had an argument with the owner, I happened to pass him in the staff room and he kicked and punched a wall in anger, it really shocked me, for the rest of the day there was this atmosphere around him which permeated to everyone. I asked one of the other staff on my way home if something was up with him and she shrugged and said "That's just him."

Over the next few months although I continued to get on with him when he was in a good mood (and I even minimised this first example of both violence and everyone walking on eggshells) I started to become aware of why people didn't really seem to like him - he was openly vile to his girlfriend who worked there also, and would quite often go into these moods where everyone had to tiptoe around him. He ended up getting moved to another store because we kept making complaints that he was harrassing her and got sacked from there eventually too. She still lives with him, though, and by all accounts he's still the same. Sad. :(

[wordyBird]

moonstorm, I too would say to trust your instincts. I read the book TheNorthWitch mentioned and highly recommend it. As Gavin de Becker says, niceness and charm are tools:

"We must learn and then teach our children that niceness does not equal goodness. Niceness is a decision, a strategy of social interaction; it is not a character trait. People seeking to control others almost always present the image of a nice person in the beginning."

The intense eye contact sounds like 'the predatory stare', no 7 on this list

www.lovefraud.com/02_howToSpotAcon/dating_a_sociopath.html