to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

[TandB]

I think it's one of those things where there are some really good, basic concepts in it - if you use to to think about how you do things, and what the consequences might be.

BUT, as a whole technique, I think it's completely impractical and very artificial. I know some people who do bits and pieces of it and it seems to work very well - each of them has taken something away from it and incorporated it into their own, individual parenting style. I also know some hardcore UPers - they do it religiously, they discuss the theory of it endlessly and whether they are getting it right and how they can be more UP, they angst constantly about other people not buying into it, and it seems to create all sorts of problems.

That wellie thread is a prime example of why I don't think you can do "exclusive" UPing, particularly with more than one child - there is a punishment, and it also effects the children who haven't done anything wrong.

I also think people decide to "do" UP without really getting their heads around it, and finish up with badly-behaved children because they don't really know what it is they are trying to achieve.

So, I think there are good bits of theory, and it's never a bad idea to think more about our own motivations and the effect on the children, but as a technique I think it has massive, logisitical flaws and it's a shame that people take it as a set of rules to follow.

[SelfRighteousPrissyPants]

You can disagree with the practice of UP but I think it's aims of making children feel unconditionally loved and to become empathetic, moralistic people who do what's right because they have thought it through rather than because they are scared of the consequences of not doing it are hard to disagree with.

I think some people here are confusing UP with idiotic parenting.

[JenaiMorris]

I agree Hully (although I've met a fair few dreadfully behaved children).

I think it's lame parenting rather than unconditional. I also suspect that it's not just outsiders who confuse the two, but hopeless parents themselves.

This is interesting. I struggle with some of it I admit, but a lot makes sense. There's a key bit at the end; It?s not a matter of memorizing a new script, but of keeping in mind our long-term goals for our children and watching for the effects of what we say - I reckon most of us don't watch the effects of what we say carefully enough.

[Hullygully]

It's also about fostering intrinsic rather than extrinsic motivation, which is very valuable.

[Hullygully]

Does praise motivate kids? Sure. It motivates kids to get praise. Alas, that?s often at the expense of commitment to whatever they were doing that prompted the praise.

I agreew ith this too^

[Hullygully]

It doesn't mean that LaQ

Shit parenting is shit parenting.

[KateSMumsnet]

Hello everyone,

It's absolutely fine to fine to have "spin-off" threads, and discuss unconditional parenting in general terms. However, we don't really think it's cricket to pick over other threads, and bad mouth posters who aren't here to defend themselves. So we're going to go through this thread and delete posts that are doing that.

We deleted a thread about UP last night that we felt was started purely to goad and inflame.

[Hullygully]

I have a friend in LA, and being with her and her friends and their kids was interesting. Every time one of them moved you'd hear "good job!" "good job"

I felt so British and reticent.

[SouthernComforts]

Yet another parenting technique that only works with naturally obedient, healthy children.

If, like me, you have a very very stubborn sick child then you're fucked. I can't cancel hospital appointments because dd dosen't feel like it. I can't let her decide whether she takes her medication or not.

I also cannot make her eat enough food to keep herself alive. Because of this she is often NG fed. Sometimes I have to physically hold onto her while she is fed through a tube. Not pleasant, but the alternative is, well, starvation. What would an UP do??

[Pandemoniaa]

As a very new parent I was obsessed with books about parenting. Having had no experience with babies or small children I took the same approach I'd always done about needing to know things - do the research!

Not surprisingly, it came as a bit of shock to discover ds1 hadn't read the same books as me but when I'd got a bit more confidence and by the time ds2 arrived, I'd realised that there was no one single, absolutely ideal way of going about parenting.

Which is why I think it is always incredibly short-sighted to jump on, say "unconditional parenting" or "parenting by inflexible routine" and follow those ideas to the letter. There's almost always some useful advice you can take from most theories but you've got to find what suits you and your child. Not take any parenting guides as some sort of gospel that must be followed to literal extremes.

[JenaiMorris]

Thing is, I know that a lot of the homework ds produces is half-arsed. When it isn't half-arsed I like to say as much. How do you let children know they#'re on the right track if you don't say "good job" when they've done a good job?

[Hullygully]

unconditional parenting is different to shit parenting.

Who's actually read the book..??

[Hullygully]

Alfie says you say, "You did it." (according to your link)

Also, I think it's fine if it's a genuinely "good job" iyswim

[ThreeBeeOneGee]

I think the name is misleading, because I parent my children unconditionally, yet I do the opposite of the method the name describes.

We expect immediate and unquestioning obedience from our children in the actual moment. This is partly for reasons of safety (e.g. stay on the pavement) and partly because we can see the bigger picture of how we need to function as a family with four children close in age.

When there is next a quiet moment (surprisingly often!) we will then explain why we issued the instruction.

Now that they are all eight or over, if it's safe and isn't going to harm or inconvenience other people, we try to let them experience the consequences of their actions when we feel it's appropriate.

We are not perfect parents by any means, but we get positive comments about our children all the time, from everyone who teaches them or comes into contact with them. They all know that they are responsible for their own actions and that behaving in a courteous and respectful manner towards others can improve everyone's day.

[JenaiMorris]

I am utterly a praise junky. Nothing works better with me than a pat on the head, although I'm also motivated by doing a better job than people I don't like

If people universally dread spending time with your children as a result of the way you've been raining them, you're doing a crap job UP or not. Although I do have a huge issue with the unconditional bit - it rather suggests that people who don't UP don't love their children enough (sorry if I'm repeating myself).

[JenaiMorris]

Raining? raising.

I've not read the book but I've read a fair few articles over the years. I suspect that's more than some self-proclaimed UPers tbh.

[BrainSurgeon]

I have stopped reading books since SWMNBN.... I decided to "trust my instincs"
My instincts tell me that there are some interesting things in the UP theory based on what I read here and that parents should be encouraged to choose whatever they see fit for their style and the personality of their child. Just like with all the other parenting books.
HTH

[Primrose123]

I know a woman who did this. It was a while ago, and the kids are teenagers now.

The mum was lovely, a really nice person. She was friendly, kind, generous and good company. I'm not sure if it was called UP then, but she certainly didn't set any boundaries. Didn't even nicely remind her child to say hello, please or thank you. Didn't tell the child off if she snatched something, hurt someone, called someone names, was rude to her etc. The child was an absolute horror. The teachers had huge problems getting her to do what she was told, none of the children liked her or wanted to play with her. Other parents would invite her over to play and she would be extremely rude, and behave badly. I know this as I was one of these parents! Now perhaps the child would have been difficult anyway, but all the other parents were amazed when this child was never told off.

They moved her to a different school, because the mum thought she was being bullied. I don't think she was, I think she just alienated all the other kids.

Since then, the parents have split up, and I don't know what happened, but the child now lives with the father, and will not speak to her mother or have any contact. I have bumped into the mother a few times, and she is heartbroken. As I say, she was a lovely mum, just needed to be more assertive in my opinion.

[MoominmammasHandbag]

But setting rules and boundaries does not interfere with a child feeling unconditionally loved. I once had FiL babysit my children. They were apparently little buggers a bit of a handful. When he finally got them in bed he told DS1, "I am going to tell your Mum about this behaviour and she will be very cross and not like you".
Apparently DS1 said "Yes she will, she always loves me, even when I'm naughty".
DS was only 5 at the time, and I am probably more of a shouty mum than I should be, but he still understood that being told off doesn't mean that you are not loved.