to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

[TheYamiOfYawn]

Jenai, you would say something like "I can see that you've put a lot of effort into your homework today and it really shows. I can picture the castle so clearly from your description. You've even mentioned the smells. What bit do you like best?"

[lougle]

"But there is an increase in behavioural difficulties in young children that must come from somewhere."

There is an increase in the recognition of the causes of behavioural difficulties which have previously been written off as 'disruptive' 'day dreaming' 'defiant' etc.

Bad parenting does not cause ASD, ADHD, or ODD. There are countless very good parents on this forum who have children with these conditions. I expect there are a significant number of less good parents who have children with these conditions and some terrible parents whose children have these conditions, because parenting is not what causes these conditions (although poor parenting will prevent the children from meeting their potential despite these conditions, of course).

[JenaiMorris]

He'd look at me like I'd lost the plot (he's 12) Yami! But yes I can see where you're coming from. I like to think I try to do something along the same lines.

Have I ever told you that I love your name btw - I'm sure I have. I loved that book when I was small.

[TheYamiOfYawn]

And it doesn't encourage kids to act like little shits. It encourages them to behave well even when an adult isn't watching. I have two children who are both naturally pretty well-behaved, but if one of them wad being rude, unpleasant or violent, I would remove them from what they were doing, explain that what they were doing was making the other children scared/upset/hurt, encourage them to empathise with the other children, explain that everyone here should feel safe and ask how they could make the other child feel better. Then I would expect my child to do something to make the child feel better. If my child then kicked off and had a huge tantrum I would apologise on the child's behalf, we would go home to calm down, and talk it over later.

[Domjolly]

Very sad i know my son has a boy like this in his class who is a force of his own he has very few friends most of the parents dont want there children making friends with him


And he has actaully become dangrous so much so he is banned from most pratical lessons because he only follows instructions if HE wants


I often wonder when i see kids of 12/13 out at 12 at night if there parents are following this UP thing

[twitchycurtains]

A family member proudly told me how she had got all of her kids "toilet trained" by the time they were six months old, turned out she was talking about Elimination Communication. She also tried it with another family members child (grandchild) and told anyone who would listen how the baby was toilet trained. Anyhoo ... just realised thread isn't about EC

[OTheHugeManatee]

My mum was pretty UP with us. I don't thank her for it: her alternative to punishment was manipulation and guilt-tripping and it's taken me years of therapy to get her voice out of my head and develop a sensible relationship to authority.

[GirlOutNumbered]

All of the good points though are just natural parenting. SO many people assume that the norm is shouting and making children do things. It isn't.

Some of it is bonkers though, children do need boundaries and they like to push against them. What happens if they have none? What do they push against?

[TheYamiOfYawn]

Ok, with a 12 year old it would like "impressive vocab" or "You're getting a good sound out of that trumpet - the practising really shows".

[Domjolly]

I can just see it now come on little dom jolly put the bread knife down your making every one feel sad lets talk things over i will give you some time to choose if you want ti put the bread knife away hahahaha

[Domjolly]

Maryz everyone works for rewards why should children be diffrent

People work hard at work because they love there job but also because it may mean promaotion and or a raise


People are nice to others because reward when you smile at somone they smile back that is REWARD evan people who do vountry work get some kind or reward

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

I don't think children are all that different to dogs. They need security, boundries affection, lots of running outside, and they need to have their tummies rubbed and told they are good lads/girls.
Most of all they need to know that you love them unconditionally, sure, but you can make sure they know that without letting them call the shots all the time.
In fact, I believe that giving children too much power and choice actually makes them feel insecure in the long run.
They end up thinking everything is about them, so everything that goes wrong is their fault.

[MoominmammasHandbag]

But to be honest, lots of little kids don't have much natural empathy, they are inherently selfish. Similarly teenagers lose their natural empathy for a good few years. Appeal to their better natures and its Lord of the Flies I reckon.
I genuinely believe you need to train your kids to behave well, not wait for them to be mature enough to come to their own conclusion that it's a good idea.

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I have several issues with this UP theory - I am not going to buy the book so maybe someone here can enlighten me.

1. How does the personality of the child effect your approach? ds 1 is very sensitive uptight and likes routine, order and boundaries he freaks out when those are absent but as he is only 8 still needs me to help him order his life. Dd2 could not be more different, she is disorganised, laid back and dreamy but also needs me to impose some structure otherwise she would be spinning around in a tutu singing to herself all day, then there is dd2 fierce, demanding and stubborn all together they can easily create chaos!
   
   How an earth could these disparate individuals be successfully UP'd and all get their needs met and me get them to school without losing my mind entirely?
   
   
2. Safety - how would UP approach crossing the road? I explain the reasons for learning to cross safely and repeat daily the mantra 'is it safe to cross' 'are you looking both ways etc.' but still my dreamy dd1 runs across the road shrieking 'geronimo' So I shout at her and give her a lecture on rta statistics and threaten loss of pc privileges to try and get through to her.
   
   I have a tool kit of parenting methods I will utilise according to the child and the situation I am faced with. one method will not cover all needs imo. There is obviuosly sense in talking to and understanding your children but if they do not have any boundaries from their parents how do they feel safe and learn how to set their own boundaries?

[ScottyDoc]

I think Laqueen talks a hell of a lot of sense. I have also noticed the UP kids being HE sometimes too and wonder how they will cope in the real world.

[Domjolly]

Mommmin


You are correct every study of this tyoe of thing shows that chikdren feel safter when they know what to expect


I worked with chikdren in care these chikdren seldom comes from backgrounds with any boundaries what so ever and are left to be wild


You would not belive how they benefit when in foster care from rules boundries how safe and secure it makes them feel



Even little things like the children being made to sit at atale while they eat and not just walk around its just so sad you can spot children who had little boundires a mile in a school setting because schools like every were else are rule based


They find it diffcult to take turns to share, to sit at lunch time is hard


I love y so unconditaly but i wont be told by somone who is 13 what to do also they wont dictate to me what they will and wont do by allowing a child to do so you are being crule the world cannot work on "WHEN I AM READY"


The whole fabric of socity would collapse if people only did what they wanted when they wanted.

[MyDarlingClementine]

I think I know of one little girl who may be parented according to this method....I have never once seen her DM get firm with her and tell her off properly, for instance, she has deliberlty hurt another child including my own and this Dm has done nothing! Said in a really soft way " oh dear, what happened, oh an accident - ok then".

For behvaiour where I would be saying " that is NOT acceptable, apologise now and if you do that again we WILl be home and that will be it!" and we WILL be going if he did it again.

This parent just seems so wishy washy and yet I have seen the nursery teachers rolling eyes in class when the child has caused disruption there, over heard a teacher saying " We told her NO today when she hurt another child..." I have seen the child go out of her way in a public place to hurt another child and the DM always looks blank and frankly pathetic. Has never made her DC apologise..or done anything,

I have even heard other children coming from class saying " i had a good day today - X didnt hurt me today!"

I cant see any boundaries, the child is a pain, but more than that, HURTS other children ALL the time.

I really struggle with it - really struggle, sometimes I have been screaming inside - " say something for gods sake".

[ScottyDoc]

Unconditional parenting and the gullible twits who advocate it could do with a slap from a wet fish. Shame my other thread was deleted because it seems the majority of society really don't want to have to put up with the types of children most have experienced from UP.

[Domjolly]

Well said laqueesn


I saw a women at soft play use this her child was hitting another child and i heard her say let me know when your ready to stop then the child of course didnt stop she then asked the child it made her feel disapointed he then walloped her and ran off into the ball bit


I dont think i ever seen sadder parenting in my life my sister was laughing i thought it was just as sad

I my view and inaeffective parent who wont provide boundries is just as dangrous as a overbearing conrtolling parent

[MyDarlingClementine]

"I my view and inaeffective parent who wont provide boundries is just as dangrous as a overbearing conrtolling parent "

I think your right there, this little girl I am thinking of scares me sometimes. Its horrid to say it but I just wonder what on earth the future holds for her.

The hurting has been pretty consistent since about 3 and she is 5 and half now.

[JenaiMorris]

But we don't know if the crap parents are attempting to UP or if they are indeed just rubbish.