To not want to just divide the bill ...

[GenerallyIndecisive]

Me and my DH had lunch today with some new friends. We have wanted to meet new people so have been making an effort to go to things and talk to new people so we were pleased when a couple we had been chatting to on and off for a few months suggested lunch. They picked quite a pricey pub but we had seen they did a few nice light bites and were happy to go there.

It was a nice lunch and we all got on really well but when the bill came the other couple just said to the waitress oh split the bill and handed over their card... Their food / drink was about £20 more though so we ended up paying £10 extra.

Money is really tight for us at present as I only get Maternity Allowance (was made redundant at 20 weeks pregnant and had only been there 1 year 11 months so no redundancy either).

My DH thinks I am being unreasonable to feel a bit upset and says that most people would just split the bill without giving it a second thought.

Am I being unreasonable?

[CloudsAndTrees]

I don't worry that I'm freeloading at all, I've already said that its usually DH and I that pay for more than what we had.

And no, the onus isn't on me to ask for a separate bill, because like I keep trying (and miserably failing) to get across is that even doing a rough calculation might not be enough for some people. Some people will be happy to split the bill when there's only a few pounds different, rather than have the embarrassment of adding up who had what when a bill arrives. Others will be happy to just have an extra £5-10 chipped in depending on what the round figure is when you round up, others will expect it to be worked out to the penny. I think if you are someone who is deliberately choosing the cheapest thing on the menu because you are on a budget then the responsibility is yours to ensure that you only pay what you can afford by asking for a separate bill at the start of the meal.

Plenty of people are like me and would rather pay an extra tenner to have a good time and enjoy other people's company than have it all spoiled at the end either by getting a calculator out or risk offending someone with whatever you do.

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Cafecito, those people behaved appallingly.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Ah, sorry, I did miss that your DH checks it all out for you clouds. Fair enough.

But if you were on your own, wouldn't you expect to check?

If you're well off, a tenner doesn't seem much, but if you meet someone for the first time, you don't know whether they're rich or not, and IMO it's polite to assume they'll have chosen a venue and food they can afford, and don't expect to be paying for more than that.

I don't get this idea of 'you should say at the start if you want to split the bill'.

What difference does it make?

Surely if you're of the view that you'd pay for what you wanted regardless, it wouldn't matter whether someone asked to split the bill at the start, or at the end? It would only matter that they should say it at the beginning, if you are expecting them to subsidize your meal. Because that way, you could order something more expensive and get it paid for.

If you honestly expected to pay your fair share, you wouldn't care at what point someone mentioned whether they wanted to split the bill or to pay separately.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Clouds, those people who you feel spoil it at the end may very well be sitting through the meal watching you enjoying yourself wondering how the hell they are going to afford to pay the bus fare to get home.

Tbh makeing someone feel like that because i happen to not need to worry about money would make me feel like a really shit friend when I realised that they do.

[CloudsAndTrees]

Cafecito, situations like the one you found yourself in are my idea of hell tbh!

You were in a big group, and presumably you had some idea that other people at your table were likely to eat and drink a lot while in a reasonably expensive restaurant.

You said you had your choice removed, but I'd disagree with that. You must have had some idea of what the evening would entail, so you could have chosen to a) ask for a separate bill at the beginning, although I realise that in some establishments they prefer not to do that b) not gone to the restaurant knowing that you couldn't really afford their prices c) announced at the beginning of the meal that you were going to order something that costs eg. less than £20, but you will put in £30 to cover your share d) discretely said to the person that was dealing with the bill that you could only afford to cover your own share either at the start of the meal, or before everyone's share was worked out to be £80, so that they could take your contribution off the total bill before dividing the remainder amongst everyone else.

None of those options are particularly desirable, but all would Have been a whole lot better than saying that you wanted it to be re worked out after it had already been done, and then asking if you could take back some of the tip!

Sorry, I don't mean this to sound like a criticism of you, I just really believe that you have to take responsibility for yourself and not expect other people to say it for you.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

So, if she'd not asked for the bill first off, you're saying that's like asking people to expect her to pay for them?

And if you go to a restaurant, you wait to see if anyone shouts up to say they won't pay for you, and if no one says anything you order more than you can afford and sit back waiting for them to pay?

I do not understand this at all. It is truly bizarre.

[CloudsAndTrees]

But if you were on your own, wouldn't you expect to check?

If I were on my own I'd be likely to either be with one or two friends who were close enough that we would consider where we were going in the first place so that everyone could afford a drink and whatever they wanted to order, or one of us would pay the lot as it was our turn, or we would split the bill and anyone who had had extras on the bill would get in an extra round of drinks. I'd be unlikely to be on my own with people that aren't good friends. On the times that I am on my own, like the occasional nights when all the mums from the class go out, I'd expect the bill to be split evenly, and for anyone who wasn't happy with that to have asked for their own bill.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Ah, fair enough. I do behave differently with close mates, we split stuff or don't worry about it.

[CloudsAndTrees]

And if you go to a restaurant, you wait to see if anyone shouts up to say they won't pay for you, and if no one says anything you order more than you can afford and sit back waiting for them to pay?

No, it's not that at all, and I can't really see where in my posts you have got that from. You go out for dinner in a chosen and agreed to place. You oder what you actually want, then you pay for it at the end. That's it. Except if you are sticking to a budget, you state at the beginning that you only want to pay for what you consume.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

So why do you say someone should say they want to split the bill first off?

It can't make an difference, unless you want them to pay for part of your meal.

If you wanted to pay for yout own meal by yourself, it wouldn't matter when they said they wanted to split the bill. The only reason it'd matter for them to mention it at the start, would be if it'd make a difference to what you'd order.

[CloudsAndTrees]

Sock, I don't think that's fair. Like I've said, it's usually DH and I that pay for more than what we have, if there's any difference worth counting.

If someone's worrying about their bus fare home (which doesn't happen in ten situations I find myself in) then they probably shouldn't be out for dinner in the first place. And if they are, they can ask for a separate bill!!

What's so difficult about asking people to do that?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Why do they need to ask for a separate bill?

And why do you think someone shouldn't be out for dinner if they can only afford dinner and a bus fare, and not dinner, a bus fare, and part of your bill?

[CloudsAndTrees]

It makes a difference if there's more than two people so that you don't have to add up who had what on a calculator when the bill arrives, which is just something that looks completely uncivilised.

In a bog standard pub, fine, get the calculator out, but there are plenty of restaurants where you may as well just stand up and pee all over the table if you are going to spend ages ticking off what people had on a bill as you add up their share. It's just not cricket.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

No, it doesn't look uncivilized.

These days, you just ask for separate bills and they bring them. Or you use basic arithmetic, which your husband can do, as you said.

It is not any harder to split a bill than it is to work out a third of the total, is it?

[CloudsAndTrees]

From the debretts website, just so you can see that I'm not completely crazy.

Splitting the bill is fine for bigger restaurant gatherings. Costs should be divided equally; niggling about the comparative cost of dishes and drinks will be embarrassing and look cheap.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Though, I will try the peeing on the table trick next time I pop into the Ritz, of course.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Why should it always be the broke person who has to be embarrassed by saying that. Surely its kinder for the person who is not broke so unlikely to be embarrassed to say before ordering " shall we each pay for our order or equal split?"

[theweekendisnear]

YANBU at all.

I don't understand why it is important if you can "afford" dividing the bill or not.

Why should I pay for something you ate/drank, if I don't want it to be "my treat"? If I go clothes shopping with a friend, I dont expect to divide the bill up into two equal parts. I am not paying for the experience, Im paying for what I bought.

Of course if you eat out with friends and more or less you have all ordered the same stuff, you can decide to divide in equal parts, but if one has had dessert and the other hasnt, I would expect the dessert-eating person to pay more.

I always do this ( pay more if my stuff was more), even if someone suggests to divide the bill in equal parts. But maybe its because Im European, and most of my friends are foreigners too.

If you go out with the same friends over and over, things will even out after a few times, but especially if its the first time you eat out with somebody, you try to do things in a fair way = you pay for what you have ordered.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Erm ... d'you know, I have a funny feeling Debretts aren't talking about a 70 quid dinner in a pub, clouds.

[CloudsAndTrees]

You can work out a third of the total in one quick calculation that probably takes less than thirty seconds.

When you are adding up everything, especially for more than three people, it will take too long. And in certain restaurants, it will make you look like you have no manners.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

If your arithmetic is that good, I suspect it wouldn't be terribly difficult for you to work out your fair share, really.

I am not remotely posh and can't cite Debretts (what a shame), but I'm not rude enough to insist I should freeload off other people.

[CloudsAndTrees]

Well, Debretts have gone downhill in my estimation since they started saying that it was ok to send out gift lists with wedding invitations, but still!

[theweekendisnear]

Actually, if everyone adds up their own meal ( rounding to the nearest pound) , each person will have to add up 3 numbers. Hopefully they will not need a calculator for this. Even if they didnt see how much each thing was, they could estimate... Maybe they will be five pounds off, but I dont think that the OP would have complained if her friends had made a few roundings mistakes.

So if everyone adds up their own things, that shouldnt take longer than dividing the total up into equal parts. And then make sure that there is enough for a tip, or everybody contributes to that in equal parts.

Is it really hard?

[HeathRobinson]

Looks uncivilized. Ha ha ha.