to think these children shouldn't be home alone for a fortnight!

[mumsnit]

My friend has started to regularly go away on holiday with her new partner and leaving her two kids at home. She was away 4 times last year and has just gone away again. The eldest is 15 and is doing her GCSE s this year, and the youngest is 12. They are going to school and managing to cook for themselves etc but she hasn't asked anyone to keep an eye on them officially or anything. Her ex p is around sometimes but lives elsewhere with his new family.

I'm really concerned about their welfare. Am I being over the top about this or should I be worried? I have tried to talk to her but she's obsessed with this bloke (who couldn't really care less about her kids ) and she can't see past his needs.

scottish no need to be like that. I'm just stating that there are people capable of this. Also to show another side.

I was also asking other questions to get more info.

like what?it's irrelevant whether or not anyone on thread was latchkey kid
has absolutely no bearing upon these kids have ability to cope or not
I did plenty I now find unacceptable,things change

Although I do agree that 2 weeks is a long time.

I'm sure her dc are loving it.

Yes things do change. But you don't know the family. The mum clearly thinks the oldest is mature enough to trust to look after the youngest with the help of their dad.

someone keeping an eye on them from a distance is not good enough! The young one is 12 yrs old FGS, very much a child and should be being cared for by an adult.

Sorry if I have missed anything but was does the law say? I know it used to be that kids had to be 13 to be left alone, but the 12 year old isn't alone if the sibling is there.

Well, an adult appears to be there.

To be truly honest if this was my friend doing this i wouldnt even be asking the questions in AIBU ... I would have notified schoool/ss with my concerns.

You are being very responsible and it is ibviously making you feel uneasy that these children are left alone.

Sod what is illegal or legal regarding children, you know the sitch and its up to you to do what your gut feeling is.

If i sleep on a problem and it is stilll a problem/worry in the morning then i have to do something practical about it, iykwim. Good luck :)

What the law says
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/prosecuting_cases_of_child_abuse/#kidnapping
there ARE NO AGE LIMITS

I think that this is not an acceptable situation, even if it is not illegal. If the OP is correct, the dad is not staying at the house/looking after the children full time whilst the mother is away, so the fact that he has come round doesn't change things that much.

This isn't the first time the children have been left for longer than a couple of days, and apparently the dad doesn't seem to have been concerned by this - not concerned enough to either insist he looks after the children when their mum is away, or to tell the mum that this is unacceptable - so I am not sure his involvement would give me any confidence that the situation was under control.

Mumsnit - I honestly think you should phone social services. You can do it anonymously, and give them an outline of the situation without giving them the details of the children, and ask their advice - then tell them more if they think the situation warrants their involvement.

I believe it would be a good thing for social services to have a stern word with this woman - maybe that would be enough to make her change her ways.

OP, did you not talk to the father while he was there, out of concern for the arrangements with the DC?

Social services are not going to have a stern word with the mother ffs if she isn't breaking the law.
Its not something I would have done, but only as I would be scared they'd kill each other with sibling rivalry.
She may have made arrangements for their dad to be there more often than he has turned up, so really unfair to judge her imo.
It may be dad not keeping his word. But still its not illegal and they aren't doing anything wrong. Which is exactly what ss will say.

Very very depressed now. Thanks for that morethan - thoroughly disheartened.

Why are you depressed?
OP is looking out for them.
Their Dad has been round.
School will be looking out for them.

Yes, the mother needs a bollocking from somebody when she gets home, but she's as likely to kick the kids out as change her holidaying habits.

Isn't that exactly what is depressing about the situation? The lack of concern from the mother?

Of course social services can become involved where there no illegal acts (such as neglect) have been proved. Their investigations will surely be part of any criminal process if a parent is being charged with something like neglect.

So I believe that, when there is a report that is of concern - like children being left alone for an extended period - they can and do investigate, to see what is actually happening and whether there is any cause for concern.

If ther is cause for concern, then they will presumably look at various courses of action and decide what to do, and if there is no cause for concern, the case will be closed.

This is exactly what happened when a friend of mine was reported to social services by a malicious neighbour, who alleged that she left her young son home alone. They investigated, found that it was a lie, and closed the case file.

But they will not be able to know if a reported situation is or is not a problem without some sort of investigation - which may show that something illegal,is happening, or that something is a cause for concern, but not illegal - in which case they can offer advice/support etc, or that there is no problem.

In this case, being investigated might put the wind up this mum - who is not taking proper care of her children when she goes off on her holidays leaving them home alone - and make her change her ways.

Social services are not the police - they don't only get involved if the law is broken.

I would inform the school. They might have noticed a change in the children's demeanour recently, and this could be a missing piece of a puzzle for them. The school could start an assessment rolling for the mum and children if things aren't adequate at the moment, get more support in place.

I feel Social Services probably would get involved, if only to talk to both parents about the arrangements made for the children when someone is away. They will probably want to ensure that someone (the dad) is going to stay overnight with them until the mother returns.

Whether or not its illegal is one thing, but the main problem for me is that these girls will enter into adulthood knowing that their mum, the one person they should be able to rely on 100%, was more interested in going off with her boyfriend than she was in them.

Poor kids.

Morethan - whilst the law does not state an age limit to being left home alone, it is an offence to put your children at risk. If the situation is at it appears i.e. the mother has gone away for a fortnight and the father is just popping in and out, then I think the parents would find themselves in an extremely tenuous position whilst trying to defend their position and I think Social Services would be very interested.

I'm shocked that so many of you think the OP should run to SS right away.

If the 15 year old is very mature for her age, I wouldn't worry. Well, yes I would, but I certainly wouldn't go calling the SS. Who wants that intrusion in their lives?

OP, if you were really concerned that they weren't coping and that they had inadequate visits from the ex p then I'd wait until the mother came back and talk to her. If you're good friends, why would you want to rain the SS down on her head?

How on earth are they in danger? How on earth does anybody on here know that they aren't cared for. They may have fully stocked cupboards, freezer, fridge. FFS their meals may be pre prepared and frozen. Several school uniforms could be ready.
The fact that it is not against the law obviously means that school and ss wouldn't want to know. Parents are responsible for their dc and ss called in when they have done something harmful to their well being. This clearly has not happened.

Not what I would choose for my kids - but I wouldn't be running to call SS. The 15year old may very well be very responsible & capable.

Not fair on 15 year old but not illegal & by getting SS involved you may well be causing far bigger problems.

Keep an eye on them, OP & sit your friend down for a talk when she gets home.

Sorry, morethanpotatoprints - that is rubbish. If a report is made to social services, they will investigate it - how else do you think they find out if something is wrong in a family situation? Telepathy?

Even if their meals are pre prepared and frozen, and they have clean clothes, are you saying that it makes it OK for these children to be left home alone for a fortnight? Because I don't, and I would rather someone responsible went in and assessed the situation - and if the dad is enabling this situation to continue, he doesn't count as responsible, IMO.

Sorry, have only skimmed through and mostly read mumsnits posts.

Sometimes worries about others are caused by not knowing the full facts.

How close by do you live? Enough to see or know for a fact that Dad isn't staying over? Could it be that while Dad has another family, he calls and stays every evening, leaving in the morning? If that is the case then I'd say it isn't much different to a single parent working long hours while 2 capable teens manage throughout the day.

If the situation is that these kids are home alone for weeks at a time with only sporadic input from Dad then I don't know about SS involvement but I wouldn't be able to stop myself having a conversation with my friend about it.

Probably projecting here but while the DC may be totally fine with the situation right now, they may actually enjoy it very much- playing at being grown ups,having freedom to choose meals and bedtimes etc -in years to come they could look back in horror (especially 12 yr old) and wonder how their Mother could have put them so low down on her list of priorities. They may end up having an ok relationship, but how happy would your friend be with the thought of her DC forever holding a resentment and disgust towards her over this?