to have insisted that DH took the kids on the bus rather than accepted a lift without proper carseats?

[BreastmilkNewYearLatte]

It's an icy evening, and only the main roads around us are gritted. There has already been one car accident in our street today. DH took the kids (DS 18mo and DD 3.4) out on the bus for the afternoon and has just rung to tell me that one of his friends has offered the three of them a lift home. His friend has a car seat for DS but not DD. I said that I really wasn't comfortable with DD not having a car seat and have asked DH to take the bus. DH says the kids are cold and hungry and that the bus will take over an hour - but has grudgingly agreed to take the bus. I don't know whether he's genuinely intending to (TBH I wouldn't put it past him to get his friend to drive him to the bus stop) but either way he will return him very angry.. he's insisting IABU because he has been looking after the kids alone for a fortnight whilst I've been off work with anxiety.

I'm not starting to doubt myself - am I overreacting to this? AIBU to have insisted they take the bus?

[MuddlingMackem]

Read the rest of the thread now, and so glad to see that there are others who think that YANBU.

[LadyIsabellaWrotham]

I've never heard of a case of a child dying in a bus (as opposed to coach) crash in the UK. Adults have been killed by low lying branches, and people have died getting on and off Routemasters, but deaths of passengers actually on buses due to crashes, are desperately rare - there were 6 in 2008, out of roughly 5 billion journeys.

Depends how urban the journey is of course, obviously an inner city bus going at 30 MPH tops (more likely 20 in this weather) will be safer than one that ventures onto 50mph stretches of dual carriageway.

[JustFabulous]

"I'd have taken the lift. Older one on my lap, seat belt round me. And using my arms as a seatbelt for the child."

LittleChimneyDroppings, another stupid idea there. It is impossible to hold on to a child in a crash.

So, you that would take the lift so your child is not strapped in safely. What happens when the car crashes and the child dies? Not your life to mess with but a life that would be lost.

[StillSmilingAfterAllTheseYears]

I think YANBU, bus is way safer to my mind.

[Jux]

Anxiety. I suspect that's what brought that on.

Ah, well, flask of hot choc, apology, and that should be enough. I'm sure they'll all get home safe.

[LittleChimneyDroppings]

Yes, and no doubt a 3 year old would end up being strangled by the seat belt if they have no booster seat either. Adult seatbelts are designed for adults, not tiny children.

[ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee]

LittleChimneyDroppings - you would not have the ability nor the strength to hold them in an accident.

[phantomnamechanger]

sarabellumhertz - I'm sure if you cared to google or look at ROSPA or something the stats are there.

very many more incorrectly restrained children and babies are killed and injured in car acidents than are injured on buses - wrong car seat, placed by airbag, straps not tight, car seat not even strapped into car, sharing seatbelt, no seatbelt used etc etc. Lets also remember that many CORRECTLY restrained children do die in car accidents too.

DH works in public transport management - serious injury to passengers is virually unheard of - often relating to elderly or standing passengers falling , that sort of thing - I can only recall about 2 cases of children hurt on buses on his patch (a county) in the last 10 years. In one case the parents were allowing a toddler to stand on the seat bouncing up and down, the bus had to brake hard and the child slid off and under the seats in front sustaining cuts and bruises. That means some parents stupid, not buses more dangerous

[ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee]

An adult seat belt gives them a chance to survive it, being held by an adult or sharing an adult seat belt does not.

[McNewPants2013]

Why take the risk in the first place, either use the correct car seat or use the bus.

[ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee]

Breastmilk If you are still reading this thread... please, when things have calmed down, have a chat with DH. Explain to him how much safer buses are than cars in an accident and ask him how he'd feel if anything did happen to DD because he'd taken the lift without a car seat as it was quicker and warmer - ask him if he could live with himself?!

Your anxiety is not to blame for you thinking it was a bad idea and don't let him fob you off that it was.

[pigletmania]

Yabu no different to a taxi, if it's a short journey fine

[LadyIsabellaWrotham]

Fabulous we take risks with our children's lives all the time. Any time we walk rather than take the bus or drive (properly restrained) we're taking a risk (pedestrian deaths per mile are much higher than either). Children die in playgrounds, at funfairs, in swimming pools. We can do our best, but not to the point of never doing anything that might carry any risk - and we all draw the line in slightly different places.

The bus is safer (unless the change included crossing several roads in which case maybe not) but I might have chosen the car anyway, depending on road conditions, the car, the driver, the height of the child. Decent 4x4 with winter tyres, yes probably. Ropy old 2CV, polite refusal.

[LittleChimneyDroppings]

Ok, I take it back having looked at the gov website. Apparently over 3's restrained by adult seatbelt, and under threes can travel unrestrained

[TheHouseofMirth]

I'm staggered and worried by how many people think it's safe to put a child on their lap and the seat belt round them both.

[Mrsblackcar]

I am probably far too late to post this, and having only read page 1 myself no-one else will read this - (my thinking anyway)

I think you were being a tad OTT, it is actually legal for dd to just use the adult seatbelt for "if the child is travelling on a short distance for reason of unexpected necessity"

Lets be honest this "In addition, a child 3 and over may travel unrestrained in the rear seat of a vehicle if seat belts are not available." is still included in the Law

Personally i would have rather made sure everyone was warm and as safe as possible.

Info from www.childcarseats.org.uk/law/index.htm

[pigletmania]

Exactly mrsblack, you would do it in a taxi fr a one off journey no different to accepting a one ff lift. It would not be god if you did not buy a car seat for your car ad regularly travelled without a car seat. I have to get a taxi every week with ds 1 year and dd 5, I strap dd in an adult seat and ds ges on my lap don't know how else to do it. I don't drive and te buses are awful to get to that location

[pigletmania]

Up its dd rainbow group

[pigletmania]

You put your kids in car seats when you can but in some situations like mine and for a one off lift its nt aways possible. Be damed if I am going to carry a big Britax Evolva around with me! Dh drives and as a car

[AnnieLobeseder]

Can anyone link to something that explains the danger of fashioning a booster seat out of a bag of coat? Because all back-less booster seats do is raise a child up so that the seatbelt goes across their chest instead of their necks. Obviously a seatbelt across the neck would be fatal in a crash. But why would coats or a bag cause any "slack" in the seatbelt that a booster wouldn't? Genuine question.....

I remain unsure as to whether putting the chest strap behind the child's back (leaving only a lap restraint) or a makeshift booster would be the better option.

[AnnieLobeseder]

piglet - is your 1yo restrained in any way? If I had to get a taxi without a car seat on a weekly basis, my child wouldn't be going to Rainbows, sorry. How is an after-school activity more important that your children's safety?

[LadyIsabellaWrotham]

The thing about booster seats Annie is that the seatbelt sits under the hooks at the back. When it tightens in a crash then it holds the booster back against the seat. A child without a booster, or with a cushion or other improvised booster can slip down underneath the seatbelt, sometimes with horrific consequences - it's called submarining.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Hooks at the back? Do you mean the arms? Cos neither my high-back or backless boosters have any hooks. Just arms and a red clip at the top for the seatbelt to go through on the high-backed ones.

I can see the point about submarining.

Just brings the point home that it's pretty stupid to take a child in a car (and since when do taxis have magical no-crash powers) without appropriate seat belts. Aside from a genuine emergency (absolutely no other option, life or death), it's not something I would ever do.

[pigletmania]

Well Annie the law does not require car seats in taxis, my dd has ASD and it's important she goes to the group, wat we have to stay in doors then!

[HerRoyalNotness]

Piglet, if I was taking a taxi EVERY week on a planned journey, I sure as hell would lug the car seats with me. Probably a backpack booster for the 5yo and whatever was suitable for the 1yo. It's not as if you're doing a on d in a blue moon trip that way, it's weekly!