To ask what exactly defines 'controlled crying' and what the alternative actually is?

[goldiehorn]

I always assumed 'controlled crying' was when you leave the baby to cry for a few minutes, then go in and see them, then go out again and leave them for a little while again and then go in again and so on.

Whenever I see controlled crying threads, there is always someone who comes on and says its cruel and they would never do it. Does this means that people really go into their child as soon as they start crying and soothe them?

Also, people often say, 'dont do controlled crying, do the baby whisperer/no cry sleep solution.' From talking to people I have picked up that these are when you go in and shhhhh/pat etc. But dont you still have to leave them to cry for a little bit before you go in and soothe them?

It seems to me that surely you either you go straight to them at the first cry, or you are doing some form of controlled crying. What are the middle solutions?

(Just interested as with DS, we have always let him cry for a few minutes to see if he will self settle, and then gone in to him. We have not had to do any sleep training as such as he is a very good sleeper, but have been talking to friends about the whole sleep thing, and am basically just curious).

[PolkadotCircus]

Pmsl not everybody can move downstairs or nap?

Nap what the hell is that?Here you go twin 1 sort yourself out I'm napping after dealing with twin 2,so 25 month old toddlers keep out of the bleach cupboard I'm napping after dealing with your newborn sister all night,awwwww got no clean clothes or a decent cooked dinner,no food in the cupboards,no time to play- sorry I was/am napping.

Thankfully I didn't have to go through such upheaval or nap as mine all slept 7-7 thanks to good old Gina.

[JollyRedGiant]

We did controlled crying with the Ferber method to get rid of night wakenings. This was at 7mo. It took a few days. We had already taught 'self settling' at 12w ish which took about a week. We did this with help from the Baby Whisperer book.

Ds has slept through ever since we did CC. He's now 21mo and there are less than 10 times in the past year he has been up through the night.

I actually found the CC easier than 'shush pat'. But both made a big difference. With number 2 I think we'll aim for baby to self settle without 'teaching' it. And we'll do less feeding to sleep and go to baby slightly slower when they cry. I do not mean we will wait a long time, I just mean we will not pick up at the very smallest squeak.

[PolkadotCircus]

Sorry 15 month old toddlers- but you get my drift.

Most mothers I know have other v young siblings(15 months or 2 yearolds)when they have newborns,napping is simply not an option.

[Mosman]

If you have a 2.5 year old they aren't at school so they nap with you

Twins is an entirely different matter, i'll give you that but according to the Gina Ford book the routine is very manageable with proper planning and organizing. So i guess that's what you have to do with twins.

[Floweryhat]

Some evidence based info on sleep training here

[GirlOutNumbered]

That's interesting flowery hat. I had considered moving baby ino his own room, but that's reminded me why I shouldn't.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Very interesting thread

Just wanted to add that people who write books on parenting usually like to present a strong line on something - like there actually is an answer to everything !, whereas what actually happens in real life is probably every variation on any given spectrum of behaviour !

[Mosman]

That was always a huge issue for me, SIDS is absolutely tragic and they do not "know" what causes it yet so I felt if god forbid it happened to one of my baby's I would feel slightly less awful than if they were all alone, imagine walking into the bedroom in the morning and finding them it must be heart breaking.

[BanghamTheDirtyScone]

I'm confused as to why it is being argued that allowing children to cry is unfair on older children - while presumably, controlled crying does involve some of that?

In fact if you're unlucky and get a baby that cries for a couple of hours during CC, well, compared to a baby who is responded to quickly and stops after approximately 2 minutes -

hmm.
ds3 does cry, and wake the others but he is 2 weeks old. Should I do cc for their benefit? The thing is if he was Ok he wouldn't cry - he does it because I presume his tummy hurts, he has wind or something else going on and therefore I must be there with him to help, to reassure.

If he didn't have a reason to cry then I suspect he wouldn't bother.

[BanghamTheDirtyScone]

Actually my feeling isthat children of any age rarely, if ever, cry for no reason.

And therefore if you know going to them, beingwith them stops them crying, it's better to do that than to leave them unhappy.

Crying = unhappy. To me anyway. I don't understand a response to it that involves walking away.

[Moominsarescary]

Some 2.5 month olds don't nap at all in the day

[PoppyAmex]

I read a study this week that stated that there's no such thing as "self settling" in babies and that it's a myth.

Sorry sleep deprived so can't remember the source.

Anyway I don't have the option to debate the merits because I physically can't hear her cry.

[Mosman]

Some 2.5 month olds don't nap at all in the day

Well they ought to they'd benefit enormously from it.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199131/Big-snuggles-little-China-A-desk-good-nap-sleepy-Chinese-schoolchildren-wont-late-class.html

[KerryKetosis]

Bangham, sometimes going to them doesn't help, they still cry.

Many, many nights I walked miles up and down my son's room, or sat with him while he cried and cried. No other sign of illness. And we would give him pain killers because we were at a loss. I remember this vividly because I was conscious that to the neighbours it would sound like he was being left to cry for hours.

My belief, based on this experience, is that sometimes babies cry because they are (over) tired and struggling to relax. And the reasons for that are multiple - you learn as a new parent don't you? About how day napping helps night sleeping, and how to spot signs of tiredness early to act on them straight away...

And if holding him didn't help (he would thrash about), and staying with him didn't help (my presence was a distraction to him) but leaving him in his room and letting him know that that it was ok, I come back, taught him how he can get to sleep and rest...

I would have loved a baby that was instantly soothed like the one you describe in your last post, but it just wasn't that way for us.

[Moominsarescary]

Well I doubt very much telling them they ought to because it benefits them would help!

[KerryKetosis]

By the way, just to be clear, for example to Floweryhat, we DO respond to our babies needs. Your post makes it sound like because we've done CC we ignore our children. That's not the case at all!

Like you our babies slept downstairs with us in the evening, then up when we went to bed. Any peep and we go and see to her, give her a dummy back, pass her the comfort thingy that she rubs on her face, and usually she's calm again.

I hate to hear her cry and often tell the older ones that they have to wait because baby comes first.

CC is just for those nights when you're doing that. And then it's done. If they're ill or sore teeth or whatever, we still see to baby's needs.

[Mosman]

And if holding him didn't help (he would thrash about)

Did you try swaddling him ? That often works wonders.

[KerryKetosis]

Yes we tried swaddling. Believe me. We. Tried. Everything.

[BanghamTheDirtyScone]

Kerry it sounds exhausting.

I know it doesn't always work - my current baby doesn't stop crying always just because I'm there.

I have not needed to use CC and I'm only putting my own experience...I have had mine in my bed, beside me, so I don't have to walk anywhere when they cry. I know how awful it is to have to get up in the night, and how impossible it makes life in general.

I just tried to minimise the effort I had to make to deal with them iyswim,

and yes it is really clear from your posts that you love and respond to your children. We all do our best I think in whatever way we can.

I think I just hate seeing posts from people trying CC saying 'help, I can't bear another second of it, I want to go to him'

those make me want to sob. Especially when people say no, don't give in now! Or it will be wasted!

[KerryKetosis]

I totally agree bangham, those posts make me sad too. No one should do it unless they understand the theory and actually WANT to do it. If you're happy with the alternatives then of course, that's fine too.

I do also think that cc done badly is probably more damaging for baby and parents.

Which could be where those posts saying, "don't give in" come from. If you don't do cc properly, well there's no point.

[Floweryhat]

"Your post makes it sound like because we've done CC we ignore our children."

IMO deliberately not responding promptly to crying (albeit for 2 mins, 10 mins or whatever) is ignoring your child and not addressing their need. I do not doubt that those who use the technique have the best intentions and do indeed respond promptly at other times. However, yes in my view CC is deliberately ignoring the needs of a distressed child .

One of mine cried a fair amount around 3 months of age and it was hard to comfort them. We couldn't work out the cause, and it was tough, but we took comfort that she knew we were with her and she was held, no matter how tough it was. If I was sad I would much rather have a hug than have my husband walk off and ignore me, even if I wasn't obviously teething or in pain.

[PolkadotCircus]

Their need is sleep.

If they've had a fresh nappy,a feed,a cuddle, are warm but not too warm and aren't ill or colicky their needs have been met and helping them to sleep the much needed hours of sleep they need for development is only furthering the job of meeting their needs.

[Floweryhat]

Well, there we will have to disagree.

[PolkadotCircus]

Clearly