to think we can parent differently to SIL and avoid sleep problems?

[GoingToRegretThis]

I have actually NC for this as not sure this thread is a wise idea, but want honest opinions.

We are just starting ttc number 1 after ages debating about it. One of DH big concerns is that the baby simply will not sleep, as this is what happens with SIL's children. They go to bed okay but are up and down all night, for example, waking up at 2 or 3am, getting into bed with their parents, refusing to sleep and wanting to play. SIL's children are 2 and 5.

DH is terrified of this as for financial reasons we will both have to WOH. He is prepared for a rough few months with a new baby but feels it will be a nightmare if we hit 2 years and are still surviving on < 4 hours/ night.

I think that SIL has naturally wakeful DC, but I also keep telling DH you can parent to minimise that. For ex, SIL will take the children into bed and not insist on them staying in their own beds. That is NOT a criticism, as she is a lovely mum and very child-centred. But I think we can be stricter, parent differently, and not encounter the same problems years down the line as she does.

Am I just a crazy optimist? Are there just some children who never sleep no matter what, and getting up with them is what you do? Or is it actually possible if you are a working parent to work out an okay routine with wakeful children?

[oldpeculiar]

I think it depends very much on the child.Having the child in the bed is a way for working parents to function!

[Iggly]

Having children who sleep badly at night isn't just about poor parenting. Often it isn't and you do what you can to cope.

[nightowlmostly]

My DH was a bit worried about getting no sleep and never seeing each other because of our shift patterns before we had our DS. That didn't mean he wasn't ready for fatherhood, he's a brilliant dad and is going to be a SAHD as that makes the most sense for our situation. OP don't assume that he's not ready just because he's thinking about the potential negatives.

FWIW my DS is 8 months and still wakes once a night usually, but has a feed then goes back to sleep ok. I would just say go with the flow, don't get bogged down by a strict routine or you'll get stressed when it doesn't work! Good luck with ttc, maybe try and not worry too much about this stuff yet, you don't know what issues you'll face. Save your energy!

[LegodOut]

Like other posters, I think there are 'sleep hygiene habits' you can adopt to make an average baby a good sleeper.

Breastfeeding to sleep, co-sleeping, using a dummy etc are all things that I know contributed to my son's poor sleep (he was still waking 14 times a night at 1 year old). But my son was an unsettled baby and poor sleeper right from when he was born, so I had to adopt each of these strategies in order to survive. If I had been given a 'good' sleeper from the start, I wouldn't have needed to co-sleep, or bf to sleep, or use a dummy etc. So it's definitely a vicious circle. Yes, if your SIL returned her child to bed each time it woke, then she might eventually get a better sleeping child, but after the 15th time waking at 3 am, she is probably too knackered and emotionally fragile to cope with the child's distress. And so it continues.

[Faireenuff]

Oh dear, I've been you, honestly, I had such firm ideas on other peoples slack parenting. Right up until the moment my son arrived. You may have to face a child with poor health, like us, or who doesn't need sleep or who hasnt read the manuals. Seriously if this is such an issue for DP and financially you couldn't survive without reduced hours or longer mat leave, just in case, then please do yourselves and your future child a favour- postpone ttc til you can.

[Greythorne]

I think it's strange how people think you can 'train' babies but nobody expects to be able to train adults.

Babies are people.

[GoingToRegretThis]

OP back briefly!
nightowl thanks, I think it is just that, he wants DC but he also loves our life together and feels we will never see one another and/or sleep again. I think he is exaggerating things as it's suddenly becoming very real after a couple of years of saving planning etc

fairee I do not think my Sil's parenting is slack!! Where did you get that? She is a lovely mum and her dc are very lucky, but I just don't think i could cope parenting the way she does and wanted to see if there is another way. i haven't read any manuals either! I don't think having worries before such a big change means we cannot have children or will be crap parents.

[GoingToRegretThis]

That is an interesting point Greythorne but I don't agree, adults are trained, I am 'trained' to respond to emails when I don't feel like it instead of reading MSN, and lots of other things. I think people are highly trained actually.

I am not talking about training like a dog btw, I am just wondering about the feasability of a routine/ structure. Maybe it won't work, who knows!

[OlivetheotherReindeer]

OP, I wasn't suggesting your SIL is slack, just that you are judging or measuring her methods, compared to your own ideal. I also didn't suggest you'd be a crap parent, and wish you all the very best when it happens. I did mean to infer though that you don't sound ready, if this is your main concern, and you couldnt cope with the unexpected. You will miss your old life, it won't ever be the same again. We are so lucky that we wouldn't swap our changed life for anything, regardless. It would be good if you knew you cou,d feel like that before ttc. Good luck when that time comes.

[FanFuckingTastic]

Lots of methods work for lots of people, you wait until you get the baby to see what will work for you, you prepare yourself for the worst, and hope for the best. I've got a non-sleeper who is now four and half years old, though this is being treated as a medical and behavioural issue and is being assessed for certain special needs.

[LadyWidmerpool]

It's not necessarily that simple.

[nextphase]

I've not read the whole thread, but the thing I'd say is its amazing how little sleep you can get used to!
BC (before children) I was a 8+ solids hours of sleep a night kinda girl.

3.5 years in, with DC2 the sleeper, and DC1 most definitely not a sleeper, if I get a 4 hr block at some point in the night, and a couple more hours in there somewhere, I function to the point that I've got myself an internal new job, so they haven't seen me suffer.

Yes, you can parent differently to your SIL, and hope your kids learn to sleep, but nothing in this world is a given, but there are ways round things - if sleep has been tough, I go to bed really early, and DH stays up to deal with things up to midnight, and then sleeps in the spare room with earplugs to get sleep while I do the graveyard shift.

[Daisy17]

Go easy on the DH - I really do not cope with lack of sleep and it was the one thing that made me think I might decide never to have children. It genuinely terrified me. I did eventually bite the bullet though, because I wanted to be a mum so much. DS has not been a brilliant sleeper, but at 21 months now sleeps through 70% of the time. He's pretty much sorted himself out, we never did any CC or anything. Ironically cosleeping doesn't help as he is far less likely to sleep in with us. If he wakes in the night we give him milk and cuddle him back to sleep then put him in his cot. Sometimes I cry with the lack of sleep and I get very down but I do manage. And DS is such a joy. :)

[nooka]

To me you and your dh's concerns sound very very normal. Thinking about how you will cope with parenthood before trying for a baby is surely a very good idea, and shows commitment rather than immaturity or not readiness.

Many parents just feel a bit broody - I know that's why we decided to have our first. dh just had a vague sense that there was more to life than how things were and perhaps parenthood was the answer. Two weeks later we had a baby on the way

I would be really worried if my only close experience of parenthood was a family with children who didn't sleep. We had two years of very broken nights (16mths gap between our children) and it was fairly hellish, but I don't think I would have coped well at all with five. If that was what I thought having children would likely entail I probably would not have gone there. Ever!

In general thinking of the families I know I think on average most babies settle into relatively copable sleep patterns (i.e with a unbroken period of at least 6 hours) by about one. A small number struggle after that for a variety of reasons.

I'd look to see if you can socialise with a few more families so that you and your dh get more of a rounded picture. Some babies sleep through very early. Some are more settled than others. Parenting does come into that, especially with older children (ours learned that getting up in the night was unlikely to lead to much fun as dh sleeps through a fair bit of 'wake up Daddy' techniques and I'm like a bear with a sore head on waking).

[Greythorne]

There's that old adage about the biggest mistake going into marriage is thinking you will change your spouse. Yes, you can train someone to respond to emails or to run a marathon, but you can't change someone's nature. Nor can you change a baby's nature.

And I could not be trained to run a marathon!

[fluffypillow]

I have three children. My boys came along first, and were good sleepers. My Daughter however is now 2yrs and still wakes up during the night, usually once or twice. I find myself lying beside her on the floor next to her cot for a good hour(maybe more) every night trying to get her back to sleep. I won't bring her into our bed, as she wouldn't go back to sleep, she would just want to play! So I just lie there until she drops off again, then I go back to bed and grab a couple more hours.

I have been a Mum for 15 yrs now, and I honestly can't think of another way of getting her back to sleep, so that's how it is for now, but it won't be forever. Like every phase they go through, you look back, and realise in the grand scheme of things , it really isn't for long.

I can totally understand why you are worrying about these sorts of things, as it's a massive decision when you decide to TTC, and lots of doubts and concerns creep in, it's only natural for you and your DH.

Life will change, and a new baby will bring lots of challenges for you both, but you WILL cope. You'll learn as you go, just like everyone does.

Everybody learns techniques that work for them, and don't forget your baby will be a little person with their own personality, and you'll love him/her so your instincts will kick in, and then you'll know what's right for you both.

I really hope you have a baby in 2013, as you sound like you will be a great Mum, and your DH sounds lovely too. Lucky baby

Lots of luck TTC

[GoingToRegretThis]

olive - eh? I was responding to faireenuff!

Greythorne you are right, you cannot change someone's nature - I am a worrier and always will be, my dsis is incredibly lively and that's just the way she is and so on. I guess I just meant, I hope my baby doesn't have a nature where they only want to sleep 3 hours per night!

nooka and fluffy, I was going to leave this thread, but just wanted to say bless you for your posts. They both mean a lot. I have been thinking about this for a long time, saving up to where i have my own house and have some money in the bank so my baby has security. I so badly want to watch my baby grow up and develop and say his or her first word and develop into their own little person. I don't want to control them, I just want to manage things right.

nooka you are quite right, I know several mums who have good sleepers so to me it seems like pot luck and you cope with what you get, DH only knows his BIL who has had 2 nightmare sleepers and I think deep down he thinks that is just what all children do.

Thank you both so much, those were lovely posts :)

[EweBrokeMyManger]

Ime all dc sleep very differently and respond differently to different techniques. What works for one wont for others obviously. I do think though that in a family if they are all bad sleepers then it is parenting or extreme bad luck because mine are very different even though we have tried to do the same things.

People who parent in more of an attachment way sometimes have worse sleepers but my friends who are like this dont mind as they are happy with their choices and thats what its about. You just do what you feel is right and ignore what everyone else is doing.

You can tweak dc who dont naturally sleep well but you find yourself tweaking over and over again as everythings sets you back tostage one again, ie teething, illness, growing pains, night terrors and understandably some people just give it up as pointless and choose to wait it out.

[trixymalixy]

I have one good sleeper, one not so good. I followed the baby whisperer to the letter with DS and he was a dream to put down to sleep and I thought I had it perfected. Along came DD and I tried exactly the same methods and she was having absolutely none of it, nothing that had worked with DS worked with her. She's 3.5 and still terrible to get to sleep and up once in the night.

I had a list of things I wouldn't do before I had kids that included no dummies and no kids in my bed. I did every single one of the things I had said I would not do. The reality was very different to how I had imagined it. I would refrain from making any assertions about what you will and won't do and definitely don't voice any to anyone!!

[VisualiseAHorse]

Mine is only 8 months old, but I knew what I wanted from him in terms of sleep way before he was born.

I am not happy with constant co-sleeping, and I want a consistent amouth of sleep. Our bed is for us, me and my OH, not for children. But I think that because I knew want I wanted from the beginning made it a lot easier. He may only be 8 months, but he knows what his room is for, he knows what 'night night daddy' means. Sure we've had (and are currently having) problems with sleep and teething/illness/growth spurts etc, but I've stuck to my guns and within a few days everything returns to normal.

Obviously, my LO can't walk yet, so I may be eating my words in a few months!!

[Iggly]

Visualise you were blessed with a settled baby I bet.

Some babies have issues that make sleep tricky to say the least. It's not all down to the parent.

[NumericalMum]

visualise whatever you do don't have another baby... you may realise how lucky you were first time round

[PurpleCrazyHorse]

I think you can only do the best you can and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. DD wasn't a great sleeper initially and I think she just took longer to get it than some other kids. On the other hand, she's always been brilliant at staying with other people, being left at childcare and generally being carted around with DH & I.

DD didn't sleep through the night (every night) until she was 18mo. Since then she's been really great though. However, she's now 3yo and starting to have bad dreams or things worrying her, so she sometimes wakes in the night for reassurance.

So... you can read all the books and have all the techniques in place but you can't guarantee anything

[VisualiseAHorse]

Haha, yes he is a very settled baby, and took to the GF routine like he'd read the book.