to think we can parent differently to SIL and avoid sleep problems?

[GoingToRegretThis]

I have actually NC for this as not sure this thread is a wise idea, but want honest opinions.

We are just starting ttc number 1 after ages debating about it. One of DH big concerns is that the baby simply will not sleep, as this is what happens with SIL's children. They go to bed okay but are up and down all night, for example, waking up at 2 or 3am, getting into bed with their parents, refusing to sleep and wanting to play. SIL's children are 2 and 5.

DH is terrified of this as for financial reasons we will both have to WOH. He is prepared for a rough few months with a new baby but feels it will be a nightmare if we hit 2 years and are still surviving on < 4 hours/ night.

I think that SIL has naturally wakeful DC, but I also keep telling DH you can parent to minimise that. For ex, SIL will take the children into bed and not insist on them staying in their own beds. That is NOT a criticism, as she is a lovely mum and very child-centred. But I think we can be stricter, parent differently, and not encounter the same problems years down the line as she does.

Am I just a crazy optimist? Are there just some children who never sleep no matter what, and getting up with them is what you do? Or is it actually possible if you are a working parent to work out an okay routine with wakeful children?

[MurderOfGoths]

SirBoob "Can you avoid your sleep pattern being forever changed, your energy levels being utterly depleted, and your life generally being turned upside down? Nope. No way. Not a chance. And that doesn't matter how they sleep, that is a condition of parenting."

I might get this tattooed somewhere...

[Owlfright]

OP I hate having my sleep disturbed and I am completely rubbish when I've not slept well. Coping with sleepless and broken nights was something I worried about prior to having DC.

Yes the lack of sleep was very very tough, but I never for one moment regretted having DC. They are the light of my life. Parenthood is tough but it's a privilege that I wouldn't swap for any abound of zzzzzzzs.

[Yamyoid]

A week before Christmas I did controlled crying with my 8 month old. It worked amazingly and she slept through on the 3rd night. On the 5th day she got a cold and she's been ill ever since. I'm now back at square 1. I'll do it again and then there'll be teething. My point is, regardless what you do, there's always a curveball. However, I think it's important to stress that you adjust to the sleep deprivation and it's worth it because you'll love your child more than you know.

[Tee2072Thing]

I'm not going to offer you any advice or tell you you're wrong or any of those things about sleep because, who knows? You might be able to 'train' your child to sleep the way you want them to.

I am going to mention that I agree with those saying your husband isn't ready for kids yet. What is he going to do if it doesn't work? Send the kid back?

[Glitterknickaz]

Ds2 is 7 and is generally up for the day at 4am, often earlier.

Dd is 4 and has erratic sleep patterns.

Both have SN and I believe anyone considering having children should be prepared for the possibility of their child having SN. I wasn't yet all three of mine do.

[GoingToRegretThis]

when you haven't slept for weeks/months on end you will do anything that gets you a couple of hours kip regardless of whether they are 2 months or 2 years old and if that means you are all in one bed then so be it

Ruby, thanks :) But just to be clear, SIL's DC don't sleep, eg she will bring them into bed and they will lie there singing or want to play with her. I am not knocking co sleeping, this is more like co waking!!!

[SirBoobAlot]

Goths Can you follow me around MN and quote me regularly? Its doing wonders for my ego this afternoon

[Bunbaker]

I'm inclined to think that those parents who think their parenting has made their children sleep through from an early age have never had a baby that just won't go to sleep. Same as those parents who have children who aren't fussy eaters - they have never had to deal with a very fussy eater.

In their minds these children don't exist, just useless parenting.

[heinztomatosoup]

I found letting them in my bed meant I didn't get any sleep so that was counterproductive. Better to invest the effort in getting them to sleep in their own beds. I have 3, various problems between them I.e. Severe reflux, milk allergy, hyperactivity but they ALL slept through the night between 6-12 months from a combination of Gina Ford's routines(not methods) and Dr Richard Ferber's methods (Solve your child's sleep problems was my bible). Now they're all over 5 and cannot remember the last time one woke up in the night. So I'm a believer that you can influence this...

[BackforGood]

You can reassure dh, that getting up 3x a night, every night for 5 years is not normal.
You can certainly try different approaches, which are likely to contribute to their ability to sleep through.
However, there will always be the odd child - for all the reasons suggested above, or for no fathomable reason - who doesn't sleep well. You can't plan how you will handle it, because you don't know.
That said, there are some children not that I ever had one who sleep through for 12 hours really well from very young. You are just as likely to have one of those as one that wakes up 3x a night after the first few weeks/months. They are less usual, but both sorts exist.

I'm sure there's not a parent among us who "knew" exactly how they were going to handle every choice, every situation or circumstance that arose, and then stuck to it - we all do our best, and we all choose certain things we will not give in on, and other things that we realise aren't such a big deal as we thought they would be.
Try not to worry too much about ifs and buts and maybes. All sorts of things in your life will / can change in the next 2 - 3 years, so many of them for the better

[CailinDana]

Surviving on a small amount of sleep is hard, but it's definitely not the hardest part of parenting IMO. I think your DH is focusing unnecessarily on one thing, something that might not even be a problem which might just be because he's nervous. Some children are great sleepers, some are not, it's just luck of the draw IMO, but all children change your life massively and that's what you really need to be prepared for.

[MurderOfGoths]

SirBoob Should I be carrying one of these?

[MrsHoarder]

OP I have a sleeper. But its pure chance: the first 8 weeks were hell and then he started sleeping through. But we still don't get much sleep when he's ill or teething.

Agree that the 90minute commute is a choice: its easier to change a job/house than to change a child's nature. And you will need to be able to cope with tough weeks even if you manage to have a child who generally sleeps though when your DC decide to grow a new tooth and have a cold whilst you're trying to meet an important deadline. But you will cope, because that is just what has to be done.

Finally consider that your BIL/SIL may be going through sleep hell but 2-3 years into it they decided to have another child. So they clearly thought the benefits outweighed the sleep deprivation too.

[GoingToRegretThis]

Thanks Owlfright

Yam that also helps, I hope I just learn to do more with less, as it were!

A couple of people have said about DH maybe not wanting chidlren. I think this is a tough one. We both do but DH is very - IMO too much so - anxious about disruption. I sort of think, what will happen will happen, we'll try to minimise sleep and eating problems and manage how we can etc, but I think DH is stressed about it. That said I think DH will make a fantastic father, he plays with his little nieces really well.

[SirBoobAlot]

And just a word of warning... If your H is saying he's prepared for a few rough months only, I think you need to consider that he may well leave you doing all the night feeds / changes / settling. My ex certainly did. Breastfeeding gets your more sleep anyway (top on my list of reasons for breastfeeding when I was pregnant...) but ex never moved more than to roll over in the night when DS woke up, because he ''needed his sleep''.

[Booyhoo]

OP

i think you and your DH really need to think about whether you want a child/children (you could have twins or more!)

i believe that when you decide to get pregnant you are deciding to have every possible outcome happen. so you need to accept that twins will be coming, SN will be coming, no sleeping will be coming, illness will be coming.

you need to be completely in acceptance of all those things before you decide to get pregnant.

[emsyj]

I would think that children without SN who are not ill (illness is of course going to affect a child's sleep much as it would an adult's - you know how hard it is to sleep with a bunged-up nose etc) who wake every night at age 5 are fairly unusual. Not non-existent, but fairly unusual.

Same for 2 year olds. DD is 2y 7mo and probably sleeps through 70% of the time. On the occasions when she wakes, she is usually up for a short period and will go back to sleep (after one of us has been in to give her a drink/a cuddle/get the cat off her bed) after a few minutes. Very occasionally, she might have a bad dream and want to get in bed with us - which we do allow, but not more than once or twice a month generally. I would say this is fairly typical for most of the other children we know of her age. Most of the mums I know were getting a decent block of sleep from around 9 months. My DD woke frequently until 12 months.

DH and I both work full time. We are expecting DC2 in 4 weeks and we are dreading the newborn sleepless nights - although I hope it will be easier this time as I have a vague idea what to expect, and I know it isn't for ever. I will do what I did last time and have the baby with me, whilst DH sleeps in the spare room. He has a long drive to work and I would be terrified of him having an accident if he was up all night. He will get up early at weekends and take both children out so that I can catch up a bit though.

There are lots of coping mechanisms you can use if you have a child who is not a good sleeper - such as taking it in turns to have a full night, letting friends/grandparents/other relatives take the child for a night while you catch up a bit etc. Don't underestimate the power of one really bloody fantastic full night's sleep to stock up your energy tank when you're desperate.

You will also get used to having less sleep. I love sleep and lie-ins, but actually I find that I don't much mind getting up in the night. DH never lies in, but is useless at waking in the night. So generally I do the getting up at 3am to get DD a drink of water/get dolly from downstairs/remove the cat, and DH gets up with her and gets her dressed and breakfasted whilst I have an extra 20 minutes. So you do adapt.

[Booyhoo]

"That said I think DH will make a fantastic father, he plays with his little nieces really well."

you are confusing, 'fantastic father' with 'fun uncle' there is a HUUUUUGE difference. you really do sound very very naive about all this.

[SirBoobAlot]

Crossed posted with you OP. It sounds like you are already trying to tiptoe around him with things that are all part of normal parenting. People can be wonderful influences, and take care of children brilliantly, but still not be able to cope with the realities of becoming a parent.

Think maybe some more talks are in order, if I'm honest.

[Tee2072Thing]

"We both do but DH is very - IMO too much so - anxious about disruption."

The definition of children is disruption, even if they sleep from day 1 and eat everything in front of them. If you're worried about disruption, or your husband is, then don't have children.

[Pantomimedam]

You will face lots of challenges as parents that don't meet your assumptions about how you'd handle them. Babies, toddlers and children like to trample all over your carefully-laid plans. They haven't read the books... oh, and just as you've got them figured out and found a way of dealing with whatever stage they are at, the little buggers grow and develop and present you with a whole new set of challenges.

But they are delightful, entertaining, gorgeous and worth it. And you will find a way of coping/muddling through with whatever you get given. Not least because you have found MN and can always post whatever is bugging you on here and get a whole range of responses. Some of which will be worth trying and some of which might even work!

[MurderOfGoths]

"anxious about disruption"

I think that one of the definitions of being a parent is disruption. There's no avoiding it.

[MurderOfGoths]

Tee X-post, great minds and all that!

[Iggly]

PMSL at the OP.

Do you think people actively choose to have non sleeping children?

We actively try not to but it happens. However mine are not like your SILs. Ds at 3 is fine! Dd at 13 months has a way to go. But both of mine have had issues which has meant shit sleep.

[Tee2072Thing]