To still feel guilty about ruining this little girl's evening?

[DowntonNappy]

DD (4.11) was at a Christmas party yesterday. Parents were asked to step inside for the last ten minutes to watch the kids perform some carols.

When i went inside, dd jumped up from her chair in excitement to see me. I hurriedly told her to sit back down. She went to do so, but then started crying. Apparantly the child beside her had taken her chair.

I said just sit on the other one then. But dd wasn't having it. She was adamant that was the 'wrong' chair, and the child had jumped into hers while dd had ran over to me.

While dd was crying and telling the little girl that's her chair, the teacher was trying to carry on with the carols.

The other child's mum started getting angry, telling dd that was actually her child's chair and she should sit on the other one.

Dd was still insisting the little girl should move. All the while, I'm trying to calm dd down and get her to sit on the other damn chair, as she was causing a scene. I threatened to take her outside, but this didn't work either. Just as i was about to basically drag her out, the other child starts crying. Her mum goes mad, jumps out of the audience, swoops her daughter up from the chair, and storms out, shouting "Fucking ridiculous. Forget it. Just forget it."

The poor teacher was trying to carry on as normal. She quietly called after the mum, "sorry about that."

I got dd to sit on the other chair (the 'wrong' one). I sat beside her on the one that was apparantly 'stolen' from her. She was sitting on the edge of it, clearly wanting the one i was on. But i couldn't let her have it because all the other parents were looking at me and it would have looked as if I was just pandering to her.

Anyway, carols finished. And teacher gave out presents. She called out the other child's name. Her mum must have been standing just outside the door, because she came back in for the present upon hearing her child's name, saying that her daughter's birthday (had no idea it was her birthday!) had been ruined thanks to 'that spoilt brat'.

I was completely numb at this point, mortified and felt so weak. All I could focus on was keeping dd calm as i didn't want things to escalate. Everyone was muttering in the audience and tutting.

Afterwards, everyone cleared out the hall. I stayed behind to talk to dd, and explain why she was in the wrong and must come with me to apologise. Just then the teacher came over. I burst into tears. DD was so confused, asking what's wrong.

I apologise to the teacher, explaining that dd's autism just makes her very particular/stubborn about things, and asked if she could take me and dd to the parent so we could say sorry. The teacher was lovely and gave me a big hug and said not to worry. And that she'll apolgise to the mum on my behalf, instead of me going to her myself. The mum - none of the mums - know my dd has autism, but the teacher said she'd inform the mum though (with my permission) to explain to her why dd acted the way she did.

I told dd off when we got home, but it didn't register with her at all.

Wow! Sorry for the epic novel. Basically, AIBU for still feeling so guilty? I need to grow a pair, me thinks. She's probably forgotten all about it. But my friend thinks i deserve to feel this guilty. I - well DD - effectively ruined a little girl's 6th birthday, and her Christmas party all at once.

[DowntonNappy]

Yep, i realise now i should have taken her out. But i honestly thought that would worsen things. It wasn't a full blown tantrum. DD was just crying a bit and telling the girl she had taken her chair. It went on for less than a minute.

As far as i knew, i was dealing with things discreetly. The carol service was going on. The teacher was engaging with the other children. I was standing beside dd trying to calm her down and persuade her to sit in the other seat. At that point, I didn't feel her behaviour was enough to warrant me removing her from the hall.

However, had it gone on any longer, of course i would have taken her out.

She was an angel at her nativity today though. Literally.

[BarceyDussell]

It isn't similar. There was a performance going on. The other mother should have done what she could not to ruin the performance either, not strop and make it even worse.

At a toddler group when there's no one else who is going to suffer, fine. In the middle of a performance by other children, with other parents in the audience NOT the time to make a point about a bloody chair.

Of course, it's possible that the 6 year old would have made a massive scene if she'd been made to give up the chair and that could be why the mother removed her. That's fine too.

Swearing and making a performance about it is not.

[clam]

As a teacher, of slightly older children admittedly, I was going to say this is pretty standard behaviour in a nursery setting. Even older children get very possessive and territorial about "places" and "whose pencil is whose" and so on. And that was before you mentioned autism.

I think you're giving yourself a hard time. Children do these things - all the time, Autism or not. The other mother was silly for getting irate about it - and bang out of order for swearing about it in front of small children. Your dd has an excuse. What's hers?

[hackmum]

The other mum sounds not very nice. The protocol in these situations is for everybody to be as accommodating as possible and to pretend that one's own child is at fault, even if they aren't. So the other mum should have asked her DD nicely to move into the other chair. If her DD is so delightful and well-behaved, she would have done so, and the problem would have been solved.

How horrible to describe someone else's child as a spoilt brat.

[BelleDameSousMistletoe]

clam is right, I think.

I was going to say (with no professional experience!) that surely most of us have experienced an unexpected meltdown and we're sympathetic when it happens to others even if it's between their child and your child (if that makes sense)?

I'd expect more sympathy/empathy than flouncy bad language.

[GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr]

I dont understand why you had to insist she went back to the carol singing, you could just have cuddled her rather than create a scene. I am sure it will all be forgotten soon, though.

[Hulababy]

You didn't do anything wrong - you tried to calm your DD down. You didn't even ask the other girl to move.

The other mother however was totally out of order. Did she really swear in the middle of a carol concert and in front of all the other children??? If so, as teaching staff, we'd be speaking to her about her behavior - that was far worse than any of the children's behaviour!!!

[NulliusInBlurba]

"Other mum was unreasonablefir swearing of course, but if I didn't know your daughter had sn I wouldn't have moved my child either."

Quite. When DD1 was 5 she had a friend who was prone to frequent meltdowns whenever she couldn't get her way. It had nothing to do with any SN and everything to do with her being a spoiled brat. If you don't know the background it can be very difficult to tell between them.

However, with a mother like that, how is the other DD ever going to learn mature, civilised behaviour?

And bless you, OP, for being concerned about the other DD. That's really sweet of you. I'm sure it's a really steep learning curve with your DD's autism and other people's reactions to it.

[Arthurfowlersallotment]

Hmm well I'd say the other mum isn't concerned about your DD so I wouldn't lose any sleep over hers.

[PolkadotCircus]

Sorry I think the other mum sounds bonkers tbh.

Kids lose chairs/places all the time,it's life and making a big deal of it by storming out is what will have spoilt her dd's bday. Making a huge fuss isn't teaching her dd to regard such things as trivial which is what they are.

Has happened to my 3 loads of times by sheer accident,bossy kids etc they were told to get over it-pronto.Your dd can't help it and even if she could she's 4 and many 4 year olds can be strident re places/chairs.We as parents are supposed to show them by example how to react which said mother in question clearly didn't.

You have nothing to feel bad about. and

Oh and the other mums were probably tutting at her making a big fuss over nothing not you.

[ENormaSnob]

Can see both sides tbh.

Other woman way ott swearing though.

[changeforthebetterforObama]

The mother actually shouted 'fucking' in angry strop? I think that poor little girl has bigger problems tbh. I think you behaved perfectly reasonably. You apologised, told off your daughter and given a completely understandable explanation of your DD's behaviour.

[FellowshipOfFestiveFellows]

Why on earth should you feel guilty? That mother is a disgrace! How can she dare go on and call your DD a "spoilt brat" when she stalks out of a concert swearing and acting like a child herself?

Your dd is very young, and coping with autism on top is never easy. If your dd was sitting there first, then she wasn't at fault at all, she just wanted her chair back and this other child (who sounds like she has learnt how to be a right little actress off her awful mother) feels crying is the way to get her own way.

I would have reacted differently to you, and told her not to call your dd names or swear about her again! As for those tutting, I bet most weren't tutting about you but about her OTT display. I feel sorry for that child as her mother is just teaching her to have a sense of entitlement or swear and shout in public.

Bless you but have a slice of cake and think yourself lucky that you aren't that awful woman!

[OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos]

The other mother shouldn't have swore, obviously, but I can understand why she was upset, and I think some people have spoken too harshly about her on this thread. You should have moved your dd away from her when as soon as the tantrum had lasted half a minute, even if you didn't want to leave the hall straight away. I think I'd feel pretty intimidated if someone my age and size started throwing a strop right next to me about having my chair, and I think this other 4/5 year old child deserved more consideration from you.

The Mum was upset because you allowed her child to get upset. I would be pissed off with you too, and I have a child with HFA so I am fully aware of how difficult these situations are. It doesn't matter that your child is autistic, it's about the fact that you only considered your own child and didn't think about the other small child that was likely to be getting upset too. The other child deserved an apology from your dd, and you should have ensured she got one. Regardless of whether it registered with your dd or not. My ds doesn't see the point or any benefit to saying sorry, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to say it when someone else deserves to hear it.

[iamapushymum]

'My ds doesn't see the point or any benefit to saying sorry, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to say it when someone else deserves to hear it.'

but it's pointlesss to say sorry when you don't mean it.

[iloveeverton]

The other mother was out of order swearing. I would be mad if she did that infront of my dc and their classmates.

[flippinada]

Poor you op. I can understand why you feel guilty because you sound like a nice, thoughtful person.

I note that you've had some "challenging" responses but that's normal for aibu and some people just like to stir so don't take them to heart

The other mother sounds awful, seating and having an adult tantrum...and frankly I don't think much of your friend either!

Try not to worry about it.

[flippinada]

Swearing, not seating. Although she was swearing about the seating...!

[PolkadotCircus]

Outraged-she tried,it was a chair-end of.

[Hulababy]

There is NEVER any excuse for an adult swearing and stropping in the middle of a child's carol concert!!! She's lucky not to be barred from attending future performances as a result.

[OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos]

Pushymum, it's pointless to the one whose saying sorry, it's not pointless to the child who deserves an apology and is also still young enough to be learning that we say sorry when we have hurt other people.

Children with HFA have to realise that the world will not always bend to them, and sometimes that are going to have to do things they don't completely 'get' because its the right thing to do and because its what society and out customs dictate we do.

[ledkr]

The fact the other mother swore in an infant school shows that she's a bit weird. I'm a fishwife at tones but can control myself if I am in an inappropriate place.

[tulipgrower]

If another kids behaviour unneccessarily reduced my kid to tears (on their birthday), then I'd be upset about it. (And I wouldn't care if it was SN related or not -> red herring.) (I wouldn't swear about it though.) You live and learn. Perhaps removing your child would have been better for everyone (and the swearing incident -> red herring, would have also been avoided)

(I regularly have to remove my very "loud", "determined" DS2 from events before he ruins it for everyone else. No SN that we know of. )

[flippinada]

Well, another child gave my child a concussion at his birthday party (my sons birthday), which he needed hospital treatment for. Slightly more upsetting than not being able to sit in a certain chair.

I managed to handle that without shouting and swearing so I'm not sure what this woman's excuse was.