to want answers to these S&B questions?

[HullyEastergully]

Why are:

1. Certain items of clothing = "mumsy" eg bootcuts, tunics, some boots but not others (forget which)
   

1. Short wide jumpers are inherently better than others
   

1. Anyone over a size 12 = fat
   

1. Fat = mumsy
   

1. That thinking the above makes you a cleverer and more knowing alnd all-round better person with a slight pitying disdain for those that don't agree.
   

Lastly I would like a definition of "Mumsy" and why it is an insult.

Thank you.

[TuftyFinch]

I really think everyone would look and feel better just wearing what they fancy.
It isn't what you wear, it's how you wear it.
Instead of worrying about bootcut/not bootcut, tunic/no tunic just buy clothes you like that you feel suit you. Not what someone in Milan decided.
Go to a good charity shop or jumble and try different clothes.
Disclaimer: you might look like a scarecrow.

[TuftyFinch]

Nice dress hilly.

[ReindeerHooves]

I'm wearing dark indigo boot cut jeans today, with brown leather conversealike trainers, a white long sleeved tshirt that's long in the body and a loose knit jumper over the top. I'm warm, comfortable and my legs don't look like parsnips.

Still haven't had an answer to what you're supposed to wear if bootcuts are out and you have legs too scary for skinnies? I have a pair of boyfriend cut jeans, are they OK?

[tak1ngchances]

That dress is not mumsy Hully, it's nice. Like the colours!

[Absy]

Right, I'm here now

1. Certain items of clothing = "mumsy" eg bootcuts, tunics, some boots but not others (forget which) ~this is because they're "easy" comfortable clothing items, which generally someone who is a mother and doesn't have much headspace to devote to their clothing, or is not interested in devoting to thinking about clothing, wears. More fashionable clothing (in current trends) tends not to be easy or comfortable
   

1. Short wide jumpers are inherently better than others no clue. Sorry
   

1. Anyone over a size 12 = fat well, that's just some people's opinion. It can depend on your body type, how fat is distributed etc. Some women can be a size 18 and look fabulous, and some can't
   

1. Fat = mumsy I think this is because generally slim = young because the younger you are, the more active your metabolism is so it's easier to be slim, naturally. Once you reach a certain age, it takes more effort to stay slim, unless you're naturally that way inclined
   

1. That thinking the above makes you a cleverer and more knowing alnd all-round better person with a slight pitying disdain for those that don't agree. only if you're an arse
   

FWIW, I love fashion. I always have, ever since I was a kid and would wear 10 layers of fancy dress clothes because I couldn't make up my mind. Finding clothes for women is HARD. Men have it so much easier, as there is much less choice. For women, we have so many factors to take into account (skirts, what type of skirt, or trousers, what cut, what size, what colour, pattern etc.), as well as a hell of a lot more societal pressure and judginess arising from our choices. If you ever go shopping with a man, you'll see how easy their lives are. Spoilt brats. But then, I love that we have more choice on one level as shopping for men's clothes can be hellishly boring.

And, for people who are fashionable/interested in it, you can become very defensive as it is seen to be "materialistic" or a "silly obsession". I had an argument recently with two male colleagues about whether or not items of clothing etc. can be actual investments, or not. It can be - fashion designers are artists, but they are generally not recognised as such because (IMO) it is an industry dominated by women and gay men, and is therefore inherently "inferior" in the eyes of people.

Go to the V&A or somewhere, and have a serious look at some of the couture items, or even not. It takes serious levels of skill and creativity to design clothes, and it's just NOT acknowledged.

[WilsonFrickett]

I love that dress Hully

I think I use mumsy in a very specific way - 'fussy' would probably be the best synonym (in my head). Like, I wouldn't say someone was 'mumsy' if they were wearing bootcuts. But I would if they were topped off by a naice floral blouse with random ruffles.

I'm probably not helping though. I thought S & B was a sex thing for quite a while..

[LRDtheFeministDude]

I love pretty clothes and I'm interested in fashion. I'm not knocking it. I do feel shite when people make casually rude comments though. There's ways and ways of doing it. There was a thread a while back about maxi dresses which was funny and silly. But constant comments about over a size 12 being fat really grind me down.

If you are really so naive you do not realize a 12 is a label, which retailers will put in all sorts of different clothes of different sizes, and which different women who may be a foot or more different in height will wear, you should probably take a quiet moment to think about it instead of sniggering at other people.

I would really love it if I could be happy about being a 12/14, and I'm not: not because it's unhealthy (I know, I checked with my GP), but because if you are a woman and don't conform to these stupid standards, someone always feels the need to take you down and try to make you feel shite.

It does feel bizarre since we're all chatting online with no clue what everyone else looks like anyway.

[SquishyCinnamonSwirls]

Hully, that's nice (would make my arse look 50miles wide mind, but it's nice!) and no, not mumsy imo.

I'm past the stage of giving a figgy pudding what others (apart from my dh) think. As long as the man I adore still fancies the pants off me I couldn't care less. He fancies me whether I'm dolled up in a lbd, killer heels, straightened hair and full make-up (infrequent!) or if I've had a mad day with all the kids I mind, have donned my pyjamas at 6pm, piled my hair up out of the way and have scrubbed my face clean (quite frequent indeed!).

I do seem to have fallen into my own uniform of leggings/thick tights, dress, woolly jumper and big boots but do you know what? I'm happy with how I look! I feel confident and sexy in my own skin. That's the most important thing for me.

[Absy]

Soz LRD, to help you out, here's a picture of me earlier today www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/bar-rafaeli-lavo-restaurant-and-nightclub-grand-opening-arrivals-1E4ROq.jpg

[LRDtheFeministDude]

Btw, I don't agree fashionable clothing is less 'easy'.

When I was a tiny little size 8, I had loads of little dresses with tiny straps or cute sweater dresses to hang off the shoulder. If I'm looking for a cosy winter dress right now, there are millions of things that are designed for a size 8. They look wrong on me so I end up wearing something else, probably something less fashionable, to get the same level of comfort.

[LRDtheFeministDude]

This is me <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=manhattaninfidel.com/__oneclick_uploads/2012/01/gollumface.jpg&imgrefurl=manhattaninfidel.com/2012/02/17/gollum-opens-law-firm/&h=394&w=395&sz=29&tbnid=0tvpSLiq3ixcFM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgollum%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=gollum&usg=__cySXUtAw96fxBNBluEtepSGsuyQ=&docid=qMi9a42ZBSCcGM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=goHAUMefIoa2hAfBo4HABQ&ved=0CEAQ9QEwAw&dur=368" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=manhattaninfidel.com/__oneclick_uploads/2012/01/gollumface.jpg&imgrefurl=manhattaninfidel.com/2012/02/17/gollum-opens-law-firm/&h=394&w=395&sz=29&tbnid=0tvpSLiq3ixcFM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgollum%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=gollum&usg=__cySXUtAw96fxBNBluEtepSGsuyQ=&docid=qMi9a42ZBSCcGM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=goHAUMefIoa2hAfBo4HABQ&ved=0CEAQ9QEwAw&dur=368

[polyhymnia]

Actually I've read in plenty of mags (Grazia, etc0 that bootcuts are coming in again and even Kate Moss has been spotted in them . I do wear them as well as skinnies but very dark wash ones which are not baggy on the legs just flare a bit at bottom. And are not cheap, therefore fit and cut good.I'm tall, so they suit me. Wear them with long, plain colour cashmere sweater.

[ThinkAboutItOnBoxingDay]

What I find uncomfortable about mumsy as an insult is that it feels like the modern way of saying 'she's really let herself go'. If someone came out with that we'd be down on them like a tonne of bricks but I think that's implicit in 'mumsy'. It suggests that there is a standard someone should keep for others (often men). This has to be wrong in anyone's book?



There is no male equivalent I can think of.

[CrunchyFrog]

I think "mumsy" is a gang of women in the PTA who are doing being a mum properly, as opposed to the way I do it.

They have glorious shiny long bobs, lovy things from Boden, nice boots and a general air of Sorted.

Then there are the Glam mums, there are two or three, who have swishy long hair, loads of makeup and heels.

Then trakkie/ fleece parents

And the loonies, there's several if us. Second hand velvet coats seem to be in this year, we look like we had a conference! I never get called mumsy, but I have had "interesting," "fun," and "gosh, that's... bright..." as comments.

[HullyEastergully]

lrd - I had no idea you were so gorgeous

[CheeseStrawWars]

"Mumsy" and "middle-aged" are moreorless interchangeable in these contexts. Society tells us that "youth" is the goal, don't look old, ever! To look old is to marginalise yourself, to become irrelevant. Hence the snobbishness towards "mumsy" = "look at person, she's so irrelevant".

"it feels so old fashioned and of our mothers generation to give up on all things contemporary" I think that's insulting both our generation and our mothers, actually. I don't think my mum would appreciate being told she's given up on all things contemporary. I'll Skype her later and tell her.

"Finding clothes for women is HARD. Men have it so much easier, as there is much less choice" - men have it easier, because they're not there for 'decoration'. What they say, do, think is more important than what they look like, they don't need such choice. They look "distinguished" with grey hair, and are allowed to grow old gracefully in a way that women are derided for if they do the same. And the best bit is that society has conned women into being their own "police" on that.

[LRDtheFeministDude]

It's all in the exercise, hully. Long walks, plenty of cackling, the occasional frog for protein.

[WilsonFrickett]

LRD - there's no icon for switswoo

[LRDtheFeministDude]

I'm sad too wilson.

[Djembe]

It is just all opinions on S and B though. It's not law or summat. Should everyone have a caveat at the end of their post saying

I really hate bitchiness and would be the first to flee from S and B if there were any, but I don't think there is!

[MrsBucketxx]

mumsy is an insult it really is.

its like you dont care anymore.

[theDudesmummy]

I am middle-aged. I am the mother of a toddler. I am size 12/14. I work full time in a job where I have to look smart but not fashionable, and absolutely not sexy in any way. I love bootcuts and wear them every day. I don't care one hoot about "fashion" or what people think about my clothes (One of the big benefits of being middle aged!). Like Squishy I have fallen into pretty much my own uniform (in my case, for winter, black bootleg trousers, mid-height boots, black v-neck and long jacket or cardigan in bright colour, bright scarf) . I am happy wth that!

[Djembe]

Yeah exactly MrsBcket you'll see 'mumsy' as a description for clithes but not for people. Bigdifferwnce.