to want answers to these S&B questions?

[HullyEastergully]

Why are:

1. Certain items of clothing = "mumsy" eg bootcuts, tunics, some boots but not others (forget which)
   

1. Short wide jumpers are inherently better than others
   

1. Anyone over a size 12 = fat
   

1. Fat = mumsy
   

1. That thinking the above makes you a cleverer and more knowing alnd all-round better person with a slight pitying disdain for those that don't agree.
   

Lastly I would like a definition of "Mumsy" and why it is an insult.

Thank you.

[ethelb]

I think that many of the S&B tips assume you don't work, or don't want to look like you work. Whether that is in or out of the home.

Suppose that means you look like you are more well off?

I am commiting the sin of getting some flat knee high boots for Xmas, but I have to walk to the station so sod it.

[flowerytaleofNewYork]

2 - they are not, as they are shapeless.

[Djembe]

Pretzel

I'm starting to realise this is the thread for S and B haterz to congregate. Fine. I'm not some kind of arbiter of style, I just like fashion and make-up, if you don't then fine! I don't understand Hully 's point no 5 when it's pretty clear it's those who don't care about fashion who feel superior morally to those who do.

[Jingleflobba]

I have been described as 'mumsy' many times, sometimes as an insult. I wear a lot of leggings and wool tunics (thank you Joe Browns!), stay at home to look after our DC's, only occasionally wear make up and tend to throw my hair up in a clip or ponytail- mainly so the baby doesn't pull my hair out.
The last time was at drop off time in the schoolyard. i was going straight out to do some shopping and meet a friend for lunch so I'd made a bit of an effort. One of the other mums came over, we chatted for a minute and she said "you look amazing, usually you look so mumsy!" Then stopped and said"I didn't mean it like that, you just usually..." Then trailed off looking really embarrassed.. My stock answer is:
"Why thank you" said with a big grin, it confuses people

[FestiveWench]

It just as ridiculous to mock someone for caring about fashion as it is to mock them for not giving a shit.

There is an element of smuggery on this thread that I find uncomfortable.
As Djembe says, for some people fashion is a hobby. Just because some superior fashion-heads start arsy threads to insult mumsiness doesn't give us 'mumsies' the right to be all superior towards people who happen to enjoy fashion.

[HullyEastergully]

I'm no hater. I'm baffled.

I haven't insulted anyone or judged their choices.

[MrsJingleBells74]

I don't understand why looking 'mumsy' is seen as such a bad thing, I wore boot cut jeans and ankle boots before I had kids, who knew I was committing such a fashion faux pas?

I'd like to look better and not covered in baby sick but I don't have the time or money and have to make do with what I've got. I have an 11 week old and a toddler & frankly how I look is way down my list of priorities. If other small minded people want to judge me on what I wear then so be it, it says more about them than me. Sorry this has turned into a rant. Surely we women have enough to battle already without all this in-fighting about what size we are, what we wear etc?

[HullyEastergully]

And this thread arose out of insults about fat people choosing tunics and mumsiness, remember..?

[Djembe]

Thanks Festive

Ethel yy, I think looking like you are a lady of leisure is key! Along with looking young, thin and rich.

[TuftyFinch]

Fashion a hobby?
Pigeon fancying is a hobby.
Fashion is just clothes.

[YuleBritannia]

In my book, 'mumsy' means 'frumpy'.

[Djembe]

Tufty - why does it make you so angry?

[TuftyFinch]

Because it is a vacuous waste of time.

[NotMostPeople]

Mostly what Djembe said although I don't agree about the weight thing tbh. We all know lots and lots of women who are larger than a size 12 who aren't Mumsy. I think that may be the OP's interpretation rather than general S&B opinion. I went from a 16 to a 12 recently, I wasn't Mumsy before at a 16 but I have found that there are more options available to me now I'm a 12, I wouldn't have worn skinny jeans before but I do now for example.

I don't think Mumsy is a generic term to mean like a mother, that would be far too sweeping. I think of it as a look that says 'I'm not bothered, I'm a mother now'. I was one of the first of my friends to have children and I've been amazed how many women who were once well presented and or stylish who simply give up once they have children. I had three dc's in three years and of course I had many a day where I barely got out of my PJ's but overall I managed to spend five minutes putting on some lippy and run a brush through my hair. Bootcuts and tunics are deemed Mumsy as they are not just not in fashion, they are very much out of fashion so to be wearing them implies that you have totally given up on keeping up to date.

You may say who cares, fashion is facile and nonsense but I enjoy it, it makes me feel great, I feel more confident and I like to keep up to date on all sorts of modern culture, music, design, politics and technolody so for me to be walking around in bootcuts and a tunic would be at odds with the person I am. If I were to be accused of being sneery (which I hold my hand up to) it's because it feels so old fashioned and of our mothers generation to give up on all things contemporary because you've got to a certain age or become a mother. In much the same way I would if my DH started smoking a pipe and calling me mother. I think that if you believe that women can have it all then they can continue to look good too.

[Djembe]

The mumsy thing: I guess none of us want our children to consume us completely, so it's a way of maintaining our previous lives in a way, showing that we care about ourselves as well as our children? And that we are capable people. A bit like having a clean house at which I fail

[FestiveWench]

Hully - i have no issue at all with your comments. I completely agree that the anti-mumsy threads are awful. Making anyone feel shit about themselves is thoughtless and hurtful and that is exactly what those threads do. The posters are trying to make themselves feel good about themselves by looking down on others in the full knowledge that those threads will be read by the very people that they are insulting.

What I object to are the other comments on this thread being negative about ALL people who care about fashion.

[TuftyFinch]

You can look good and enjoy music without caring what's 'in fashion'.
Enjoying clothes does not have to be about fashion.

[ReindeerHooves]

What I don't understand is what overweight women heading into their 40's with rugby player legs are supposed to wear, according to S&B

Skinny jeans/leggings/skirts and dresses above the knee - too fat
Boot cut jeans - too "mumsy" and out of date
Tunics - as per boot cut jeans
Linen trousers in the summer - just no, apparently

So what does that leave?

I like clothes, I like to think I know what suits my colouring and shape. I hope I fit in somewhere between the dedicated followers of fashion and the shapeless sack wearers. There is a middle ground which is probably considered mumsy but frankly my dear, I don't give a fuck

[HullyEastergully]

NotMost

Thanks for that answer, could I ask what you mean by "keeping up to date?"

[MrsJingleBells74]

Before I had kids I used to spend a lot of money on clothes & make up & like to think I was relatively well groomed.

Since having 2 kids I don't have the money, time or energy for 'grooming'. It's not that I can't be bothered, it's just it's lower on my list, I can't do anything about it so worrying isn't going to make it better, so I put it to the back of my mind, throw on whatever comes to hand & hope no- one notices I haven't brushed my hair.

Am dealing with a toddler & new born, maybe once they're a bit older I can focus more on my appearance again.

[Djembe]

Tufty - but Tunicgate was about how tunics don't suit anyone regardless of body size, especially bigger women. Not about fashion. Tunics erase curves and are for hiding. Not a very feminist choice of outfit

Festive I have honestly never thought of S and b as a bitchy place. It is incredibly supportive of anyone posting, regardless of size. I like the brutal honesty of some of the posters there.

[TurkeyGibletsGeekette]

I'm not wholly convinced that your ability to keep up to date with "all sorts of modern culture, music, design, politics and technolody" has anything to do with the clothes you put on your back.

[HullyEastergully]

at tunicgate

[MrsJingleBells74]

reindeer no to linen trousers? Really? another fashion faux pas I've committed then.

[MsElleTow]

I wear clothes for comfort! I defy anyone with the pain issues I sniffer with to endure a day of wearing skinny jeans, instead of leggings, just so some stuck up cow doesn't judge them for being "mumsy"!

Yesterday when I read the slagging off tunic thread, I was wearing denim look leggings, a dark navy long jumper (tunic) with a cerise pink heart, and Celtic sheepskin boots. My hair was washed and styled and is highlighted, I had make up on, I am a size 8-10 and carry no baby weight! I did not look mumsy!