AIBU to find this slightly odd behaviour from atheist friends?

[handsandknees]

I am an Evangelical Christian. People who know me well know that. I am happy to talk about it if people want to, but I don't go on about it.

Last Easter one of my friends posted a long status on facebook basically ranting against the Christian Easter message and saying that she didn't want or need Jesus to have died for her, thank you very much. Up to her what she writes of course, but the tone was very aggressive and I wondered why. I didn't comment but later she sent me a personal message asking me what I thought of her post.

Then this week another friend posted a photo on my wall which said "Proud to say I'm an atheist". I haven't responded but just wondering why would someone do this? I am not offended just find it a bit strange.

Why do you think they would do this?

[exoticfruits]

I will be prepared to believe it , if you give me the name of the school where it has happened.

[GrimmaTheNome]

You might believe it if you'd ever read through the Lancashire LEA admissions criteria booklet.

One of the cases I know of is my neighbour, my village school which I'd rather not divulge to someone who is implying I'm a liar. She's not a non-christian, as it happens - but as a divorced RC her kids weren't welcome at either the village CofE or the RC in one of the nearby villages. We didn't even bother applying - maybe we'd have been granted a place after the non-village churchgoers but given the oversubscription that was unlikely. The priority at that time was looked after, churchgoers (as below), sibs, distance (not sure which order the latter were in) .

There are no other schools feasible to walk to.

I've just checked the admissions criteria for our village school -they've changed in the last couple of years. Now its:

1. looked after children and special need that can only be met by this school
   
   

1. Children who live closest to the school, to a maximum of 4
   

The distance between the Ordnance Survey address points for the school and thehome measured in a straight line will be used to determine which addresses are closest
to the school.

1. Children with a parent/guardian worshipping at
   

(a) xxxx St. Anne?s Church
(b) A church in membership of Churches Together in England or the Evangelical Alliance
4)siblings
5) others

In 2012, there were 42 applications for 15 places So - 4 lucky village kids now get priority. If there's more than 4, tough - even with the changed rules local kids can be turned away for distant churchgoers.

[DontmindifIdo]

Thing is, as a Christian I do agree that faith schools can be unfair, but I also think there's a lot of hand wringing about unfair entry criteria for non-church goers, without accepting as the LEA are getting these state school places on the cheap (with the church goers giving the money to subsidise the schools).

How would it be fair that a LEA could expect the congregation to fund a school without having priority on places that they've paid for through their collection donation?

The subsidising of state education by the Church is never the bit that gets mentioned. There's a certain element of "he who pays the piper calls the tune." It's not fair, but it's also not fair that money people are donating to the church has to be used for something that the tax payer should be.

(this is before we get on to areas like mine where they had a shock last year as the numbers putting their DCs into prep fell, and horror! They actually had to provide state school places for these children.)

[exoticfruits]

I don't know which school it was in Lancashire, but having had a quick trawl around them I find they are exactly as I stated except that some put siblings in the school above catchment. The general trend is as of the rest of the country. Looked after children, those with SN that can only be met by that school -then it varies between siblings at the school and catchment area-it is only after those 4 that those outside the catchment can get a place with those who worship in the church first. I have no doubt that odd schools put church goers first-but it is rare and I didn't find it on the first 5 that I looked at.

[exoticfruits]

This was the typical:

By law, no infant class may contain more than thirty children. The governing body
operates a system of equal preferences under which they consider all preferences equally
and the Local Authority notifies parents of the result. In the event that there are more
applicants than places, after admitting all children with a statement of educational need
naming the school, the governing body will allocate places using the criteria below, which
are listed in order of priority.

1. Children in Public care.
   
2. Children with special medical or social circumstances affecting the child where these
   

needs can only be met at this school.

1. Relationship as brother or sister to a pupil already attending the school at the time of
   

application and admission.

1. Residence within the parishes of Arkholme, Gressingham and Whittington, including
   

the extended catchment as marked on a map available in the school prospectus.

1. Children with a parent/guardian worshipping in a church in membership of
   

Churches Together in England.

1. Any other children.

[exoticfruits]

You don't even have to ask the school or LEA-just look on line, it is so easy and 9 times out of 10 you will find that you don't have to be a church goer or have a belief in God.

[GrimmaTheNome]

This is interesting...some of the local CofE ones I know used to have priorities as described by Himalaya earlier (with churchgoers ahead of local) now have this sort of thing:

3.
Children living within the extended parish (see note 4)
a) Worshipping in the local covenanted Churches (see note 5)
b) All other Children (see note 6)
4.
Children whose parents live outside our extended parish
a) Worshipping in Churches Together, Evangelical alliance, and other faiths
b) All other children

So, still second class citizens but not quite so bad as before.
I haven't managed to find the RC ones online yet - the last hardcopy book we had 3-4 year ago they were all very much Catholics first.

[exoticfruits]

Quote an actual school then-I have failed to find one over 4 counties.

[GrimmaTheNome]

OK, taking the primary league table, sorting by 'higher level' and looking at the faith schools, first hit:

1. Baptised Roman Catholic children who are in public care and adopted Roman
   

Catholic children who were previously looked after.

1. Baptised Roman Catholic children who will have a brother or sister attending the
   

school at the time of admission and are resident in the parish.

1. Baptised Roman Catholic children who are resident in the parish.
   
2. Baptised Roman Catholic children who will have a brother or sister attending the
   

school at the time of admission and who are resident in another parish.

1. Other baptised Roman Catholic children who are resident in another parish.
   
2. Non Roman Catholic children who are in public care and adopted children who were
   

previously looked after.

1. Non Roman Catholic children who will have a brother or sister attending the school at
   

the time of admission

1. Non Roman Catholic children
   

Next one - RC, similar.
Then there's two CofE we've already cited which are OK.
Then another RC - similar to previous.
Then a CofE which has all christians at 2(with subsections for sibs/in/out of parish) then sibs then 'others'. There's another bad'un to go with my village school.

Maybe you weren't looking at the Catholic schools.

[GrimmaTheNome]

Quote an actual school then-I have failed to find one over 4 counties.

OK, I'm not naming my village but here's a couple found in the last couple of minutes working down the list:
Clayton-le-Moors All Saints Church of England Primary School
Halsall St Cuthberts CofE

and all the RCs I've looked at

[SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR]

Frank, you can use all the long words you like, but your argument still boils down to 'My imaginary friend exists because I say it does, and you can't prove it with proper, objective facts, figures, measurable quantities or any of that real stuff, because my imaginary friend is too special...'

Which remains fine as long as you keep your imaginary friend as your own business and do not require anyone else to give a toss about it.

[exoticfruits]

Catholic are different-they have nothing to do with 1870 and the education act. Will look at the others.

[GrimmaTheNome]

They're not different from the POV of someone trying to get a school place in an area where there's lots of them.

Heysham St Peters is another one (I stopped looking after finding 3 without trying very hard)

[exoticfruits]

C of E is the religion of the state. Schools started with the C of E and the state filled in with board schools in 1870. Catholic schools were always separate, never pretended to be for anything other than Catholics-they were not supposed to serve the community.

[GrimmaTheNome]

But they are part of the state education system now. Maybe its worse when you get CofE schools who aren't serving their parish (in the geographical sense) well, but from the POV of a non-christian they're part of the same system.

[exoticfruits]

I did say originally that if there was choice of school they would be more picky. Heysham has several schools so there is no need to choose a church school if you don't agree with the ethos.

[exoticfruits]

Clayton-in-the-Moors is similar-at least one other school. I think you misunderstand me-if a village has only one school then catchment comes first. If there are other schools why would an atheist want the one that has close ties with the church?

[exoticfruits]

Having looked at the Halsall one I think that you can safely say that if there is a choice of school than the C of E puts C of E parents first-if there is only one school they put catchment first. Catholic schools are never the only school in the village.

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

DontmindifIdo - 100% of running costs of faith schools are paid by the taxpayer.

[exoticfruits]

Perhaps the tax payer would like to buy the school then and not have the church part. (I doubt it)

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

...as are 90% of capital costs.

It's hardly going to be a priority for the government's spending, is it, while the CofE is still established, and the vast majority of the population have no idea how school admissions work. No matter how nice it would be to have religion-blind admisssion to state schools.

[theboutiquemummy]

they don't sound like friends to me

[exoticfruits]

I think that we rather lost track of the OP theboutiquemummy! My first advice was best-ignore-do not discuss in any shape or form!

[GrimmaTheNome]

So I live in the only village where if you're not in the lucky four locals you get kicked out elsewhere? what are the chances of that...

I'm glad to see the criteria do not all seem to be what they were 10 years ago round here but I don't think the problem has evaporated. Secondary schools are another matter again...

[GrimmaTheNome]

I think that we rather lost track of the OP theboutiquemummy! My first advice was best-ignore-do not discuss in any shape or form!
you're not wrong there