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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be fucked off that stroes still feel the need to define toys by gender?

404 replies

GretaGip · 14/11/2012 22:02

I've been wandering around all day looking for inspiration. Hmm

And it seems that within toy sales it's imperatiove to be prosciptive. Sad

Surely one of the major retailers could realise that cupcakes and butterflies for grils and transport and dinosaurs for boys is just ouutdated and break free from the molud and then just sit back and wait for hoards of satisfued MNers to boost their sales.

AIBsimplistic?

Sigh.

OP posts:
LadyMetroland · 16/11/2012 07:06

Yanbu.

It's not just about the grouping and placement of toys within the shops, its the packaging and marketing of them.

You have to search hard for genuinely unisex toys.

Booboostoo · 16/11/2012 07:20

I haven't read the whole thread so may be repeating...but some of the online retailers are the worst offenders. The only way to search is through 'boy toys' and 'girl toys' rather than age or type of toy which is much more sensible.

YANBU OP.

Fakebook · 16/11/2012 07:27

Well firstly I bought the camera from amazon so I didn't need to go into a shop. The reason why I've mentioned this (btw, wtf at this comment:Why do you feel getting the blue rather than the pink is even noteworthy?) is because people seem to think girls are getting conditioned into buying pink, but I don't think they are.
I don't know why the camera can't be yellow green or orange with polka dots; that's something to ask vtech.

Yes it makes it easier to shop if you're happy to shop as the marketing men and women want you to. i.e. buying into their sexist twaddle.
No, nobody forces you to go and buy these things. No one holds a gun to your head and says "buy this pink shit for your dd or else". I'd like to think I'm clever enough to understand this marketing ploy.

For the love of God, people, stop thinking!!
Ridiculous.

Gender stereotyped toys do matter. They are shrinking the world for our daughters by limiting the 'socially acceptable' choices they have.

Bloody hell, all because they stack girls toys together in the shop? Yeah, okay!

Seems like I'm just going to have to agree to disagree here.

RudolphUcker · 16/11/2012 07:30

YY Somerset, so depressing

And at the 'never did me any harm' argument of the terminally blinkered.

SomersetONeil · 16/11/2012 07:56

No Facebook, you're ridiculous.

People are not 'over-thinking'. But I suppose if you rarely think at all, and certainly if you're not the type to question things, then yes, this probably does seem like over-thinking to you.

Out of interest, what do you think of the Asda Christmas ad? I just bet you think people are making a big fuss of it, and it's just what Christmas/life is like for most families, right? The mother does most of the housework and the father rarely, if ever, pitches in.

Go on, surprise me...

YoullScreamAboutItOneDay · 16/11/2012 08:11

Well firstly I bought the camera from amazon so I didn't need to go into a shop. The reason why I've mentioned this (btw, wtf at this comment:Why do you feel getting the blue rather than the pink is even noteworthy?) is because people seem to think girls are getting conditioned into buying pink, but I don't think they are.

You know what Fakebook, you may think that, but I am afraid I think you are totally and utterly wrong.

My DD1 (aged 3) recently had to make a choice about a product. This particular product came in pink, blue or yellow. She chose pink. Fair enough. A number of days later, she mentioned to me in passing (we weren't even talking about the item), "of course mummy, I had to choose the pink one because I am a girl". I was horrified that she felt that way, but tried to cover it up and casually asked her why. She pointed out that every girl in the class had pink and every boy blue. She said she had to choose pink.

Children are like sponges, and they pick up messages. I am strongly feminist. I have never taught her that she 'had' to do anything. But society had done it for me with all the conditioning towards particular colour choices.

Gender stereotyping matters.

Oh, and the 'gun to your head' argument is very poor. No one holds a gun to my head and forces me to shave my legs, but I'd feel uncomfortable at a swimming pool if I hadn't. No one holds a gun to my head and tells me that I don't dress a boy in a frilly dress, but in today's society I would feel silly if I did. No one holds a gun to my head and tells me that I don't eat pasta carbonara for breakfast, but societal messages tell me so strongly not to that I'd feel weird if I did. Conditioning and compulsion are not all about direct compulsion (nor, indeed is conditioning always bad, but since that isn't how you framed your argument I'm not going to argue why, in this case, it is).

blonderthanred · 16/11/2012 08:35

As the (proud) new mother of a DS, I have been really surprised by how many times when I am looking online at clothes etc, everything is divided into Baby Boy or Baby Girl. Of course I knew there would be some stuff that was pink or blue but I naively thought that babies were, well, babies. That most stuff was fairly neutral. How wrong I was!

My pet hate is how boys' stuff (toys & clothes) can be universal whereas girls' stuff can rarely be bought for boys. As a poster said earlier, having a 'tomboy' girl is something to be proud of, the equivalent for a boy is usually described less positively or linked to sexuality. I am enjoying the challenge of finding things for my DS that confound this.

MakeItALarge · 16/11/2012 09:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThePerfectFather · 16/11/2012 09:12

I've raised our DD1 and DD2 as a stay at home Dad for nearly 4 years now, and DD1 is incredibly "girly", into dressing up, clothes, pink, fairies etc.

I had never forced this on her, never bought her toys that are inherently "for girls" and she doesn't watch stuff like Barbie or Angeline Ballerina or whatever. Most of the kids she played with growing up were boys. Her best friend is our neighbour's son who has two brothers.

She sees her working Mum - who hates the colour pink - for maybe an hour a day before bedtime, and then all day weekends. But they don't sit around talking about Barbies and dressing each other up. Her Mum isn't a pink-and-glitter kind of person.

But the FIRST time DD1 saw a Barbie doll, she practically fell over. I bought her one and she adores it, roleplays with it, continually dresses and undresses her. She likes tea parties with her toys, she loves dressing up as a fairy, she is absolutely obsessed with the makeup aisle at the supermarket even though I, understandably, never go down there.

What explains this? I'm her main role model (she's just like me actually, it's scary) but she is absolutely fascinated by girly things. I think the main explanation is that men and women are different, so girls and boys are too. The toys she likes appeal to her on a fundamental level.

If you really think that toy manufacturers make toys and rely on parents and society forcing them on their kids, I think you're mad. They find out what kids like, and girls tend to favour one type of toy while boys favour another.

I notice huge differences already in the way she plays with other kids in large groups. All the boys tend to group up and exclude the girls, while the girls are happy to play with either gender and she vocally bemoans the fact that her best friend won't play with her when there are boys around, so has to play with other girls.

Why are the boys like this? Have they been socialised to detest girls at this age? I sincerely doubt it. I don't know any of my friends kids who have been told to reject girls as friends and companions. But in my experience they do.

To overlook simple instinct and brain chemistry is to essentially deny that at our core, we are animals. A lot of what we do is down to our genes, our brain chemistry and our instincts. You can rail against society at large, Mattel, sexism etc. all you want. But in my experience, kids will gravitate towards what they like, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you want to obsess about it and raise them like one of those poor "gender neutral" kids that are in for a life of weirdness.

If she's happy, what are you concerned about? OK she prefers "boys" toys. You know where they're kept, right? Go there, pick up toy, purchase. I manage it when DD1 wants a new Hot Wheels car without climbing onto a high horse and screaming about how unfair it is that a shop dares to simplify things.

squoosh · 16/11/2012 09:15

MakeItALarge: I have no problem with the xmas advert, I havent even seen it

How can you have an opinion an an ad that you haven't even seen? Hmm

YoullScreamAboutItOneDay · 16/11/2012 09:16

MakeitLarge - I do teach my child to question. My point was how pervasive these views can be even you directly challenge them with your children. And I think you've missed my point about the pasta.

SomersetONeil · 16/11/2012 09:21

"Of course theres conditioning out there but can you not teach your child to question these things?"

Um, yes, that's exactly what I plan to do. Fakebook is the one suggesting people shouldn't over-think things. And if you don't think (as FB recommends), then how can you question things?

"Oh and somerset of course telling someone if they dont agree with your opinion is because they dont think at all is very mature."

Confused I thought it was obvious - apparently not... I was taking the piss out of Fakebook for telling everyone to stop 'over-thinking'. She is the one fully admitting she doesn't think to think much.

squoosh · 16/11/2012 09:21

without climbing onto a high horse and screaming about how unfair it is that a shop dares to simplify things.

Screaming? How odd, I've only noticed a discussion of the relatively recent marketing ploy to divide all toys along gender lines. Newsflash, little girls wanting pink and only pink isn't down to 'brain chemistry' (!) it's down to children absorbing advertising messages. No one's said that girls can't be fascinated by girlie things, if you think that's what people are 'screaming' about I suggest you reread the thread.

blonderthanred · 16/11/2012 09:22

PerfectFather, it's interesting to me that you have laid down so much anecdotal evidence that the choices are societal rather than genetic - but chosen to interpret it the opposite way. I realise you will think I am doing just that but honestly, which genes, hormones or brain cells do you think make boys reject girls but girls accept either?

It's exactly my point - girls are seen as 'lesser', non-universal, their experience only of interest to their own gender. Boys are of interest to everyone! - but of course.

MakeItALarge · 16/11/2012 09:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Zwitterion · 16/11/2012 09:49

*Fakebook' you may find my earlier comment ridiculous, but I stand by it.

It's not rocket science.

Girls (and boys) are messaged continuously that pink is for girls and blue for boys.

Girls choose and/or given pink toys because it's the socially acceptable thing to do at the moment

Girls toys are focused on a) how you look or b) your relationship to men/children

Aspirations narrow.

It's patently not over-thinking. It's obvious, insidious, and it's definitely getting worse

ThePerfectFather · 16/11/2012 09:51

blonderthanred - I don't have millions of kids of my own to confirm my theories, just my own experience of my kids and other people's, and the fact that the society we live in is the way it is.

But my personal conclusions are the same; I don't think it's society that's to "blame", but rather society that is a reflection of humanity. It just sounds like more of the usual bleating and blaming of some wider, invisible force. "It's rotten old society again telling our kids what to do!". I don't buy it.

HazleNutt · 16/11/2012 10:14

How does the gender division make things easier to find, like someone claimed here? Not everybody assumes that dinosaurs are for boys and therefore must be in boys section. What's wrong with just sections for "dolls", "legos", "puzzles" ans similar?

squoosh · 16/11/2012 10:19

I don't think it's society that's to "blame", but rather society that is a reflection of humanity. It just sounds like more of the usual bleating and blaming of some wider, invisible force. "It's rotten old society again telling our kids what to do!". I don't buy it.

It's called m-a-r-k-e-t-i-n-g and marketing is part of our society. Do you seriously think girls are wired in the womb to gravitate to pink and boys are hardwired to gravitate to blue? Clearly you do buy it, lock stock and barrel you're just unable to admit it.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 10:28

What Zwitterion said ^^

OP YANBU

LookAtAllTheseFucksIGive · 16/11/2012 10:31

I like pink stuff being together. Tis easier to avoid.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 10:35

Press release 2012 : "The launch of LEGO Friends came after a $40 million global marketing push, according to Bloomberg Businessweek. ?This is the most significant strategic launch we?ve done in a decade,? said LEGO Group Chief Executive Officer Jørgen Vig Knudstorp. ?We want to reach the other 50 percent of the world?s children.?

WTAF! I am 44, and grew up with Lego. Pink might not stink, but this attitude certainly does.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 10:36

And guess what my dd wants for Xmas?

crazyhatlady · 16/11/2012 10:37

Surely it just makes stuff easier to find though? If it was all just mixed up with a big unisex sign how on earth would you know where to start looking. Just because a toy is labelled 'boys' doesn't mean you can't buy it for a girl. If you want to buy a girl a monster truck you'll know where to look for it, makes sense to me.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 10:39

crazy - as already said, you have sections for lego, cars, jigsaws, dolls etc...You are saying - if you want to buy a Monster Truck for a girl, you know you can find it - in the Boy's section ? Hmm