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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be fucked off that stroes still feel the need to define toys by gender?

404 replies

GretaGip · 14/11/2012 22:02

I've been wandering around all day looking for inspiration. Hmm

And it seems that within toy sales it's imperatiove to be prosciptive. Sad

Surely one of the major retailers could realise that cupcakes and butterflies for grils and transport and dinosaurs for boys is just ouutdated and break free from the molud and then just sit back and wait for hoards of satisfued MNers to boost their sales.

AIBsimplistic?

Sigh.

OP posts:
ThePerfectFather · 16/11/2012 16:40

OK so wait, wait, wait.

A lot of you seem happy to blame marketing for your kids desires for blue/pink or trucks/barbies but aren't you then admitting that basically you have totally failed to raise them as individuals who should follow their hearts desires, and you've let some marketing guru do it all for you?

These are the main cases I've seen that annoy the hell out of me:

"My kids are different from these two simplistic categories! I demand for things to be changed to accomodate me and my kids!" which I'm going to award the "Selfish Special Snowflake of Impotent Rage"

or there is:

"My kids WOULD be different, but someone has made them this way! Something should be done! I blame marketing!"

Which gets awarded the "Feeling Guilty but Simultaneously Devolving Oneself of Responsibility" Award.

Boys and girls are different. That doesn't mean one is better than the other, but they are different. I am sure that makes me an incredible sexist in the eyes of many people, or "part of the problem" but I think you're just trying too hard to find something to rage against.

My DD1 loves all kinds of things I did at her age - cars, insects, train sets, super heroes. I have probably subconsciously encouraged interest in these things by my own interest. But I have never, ever, even once expressed any interest in those despicable Lelly Kelly shoes - yet the moment she saw the shoes she gasped in amazement and told me she had to have them. Why? Is it marketing? If it is, why doesn't she want all the other toys just as much?

Who is to "blame" for this? Is it some colossal conspiracy or is it just human nature?

And more to the point, if your kid is happy who gives a shit if you have to go through the TRAUMA of looking in the boys aisle for a toy for your girl? Are you being denied access to Hot Wheels cars because you don't have a boy? Are your boys stoned for playing dress up and wearing a skirt?

As for splitting up the aisles in the store by category....that's already exactly how it is. Go to Toys R Us and the end of each aisle has the toy types in that aisle listed by category - "Aisle 90 Lego, Star Wars, Pokemon".

There's no sign saying "no vaginas allowed".

girliefriend · 16/11/2012 16:43

yanbu this is something that really annoys me, as is defining a girl who dares to like something from the 'boys' section a tomboy!!!

My dd hates bloody crappy barbies and anything pink - thank God!!

I often have to tell her that there is no such thing as 'boys' toys or 'girls' toys just toys!!! She is welcome to play with what she likes and it doesn't have to mean anything.

My brother annoyed me recently as he didn't want his son (who is 3 yo) playing with a dolls house as it is too girly!!! WTAF?!! He is 3yo let him play with what he wants!!!

squoosh · 16/11/2012 16:47

Why the fury PerfectFather?

YoullScreamAboutItOneDay · 16/11/2012 16:49

It's not about marketing PerfectFather. It is about societal shaping. It' s not about adverts per say, it about a culture that gives our children thousands of messages a day about who a boy should be and who a girl should be. However much I would like to, I can't filter that all out.

You do a marvellous line in talking down to anyone who disagrees with you too.

squoosh · 16/11/2012 16:52

You can stamp your feet as much as you like but the fact remains that the marketing of gender specific children's items is stronger now than ever before. It is fatuous to suggest that kids aren't influenced by things they see in the shops, things their friends own and ads on the televison.

Girls liking pink isn't genetic. Boys liking blue isn't genetic.

Why are you so angry that people on this thread oppose sexism?

HazleNutt · 16/11/2012 16:56

I think it's worse on boys. As said, most people don't really mind if a girl plays with "boys" stuff or wears "boys" clothes. You certainly get more of a reaction if you put a boy in a dress and give him a barbie. As it's fine to aspire to be like a boy, but not the other way around.

PerfectFather so your DD was just born to like Lelly Kelly shoes? Without any outside influence whatsoever?
Never seen any ads that tell her that girls in pink and flowery is pretty, no relatives who give her girly things and tell her how gorgeous she looks in them; don't have any friends who claim that pink and sparkly is really good thing to have, basically grown up in a vacuum and still likes a certain brand?

FryOneFatManic · 16/11/2012 17:03

I agrfee with YoullScream here. Despite my best efforts, I am still having to compete for my DCs attention against all the marketing going on. Yes I am careful about how much/what kind of tv they see, but it's not just there. They see stuff in the shops, they hear things from friends and classmates, it's all around us and the kids soak it all up like sponges.

I have to repeat and reinforce that both of them can be whoever they want to be.

As for sorting toys by type rather than by some preconcieved idea of gender. Doesn't happen around here, the delineation of toys in shops is definitely influenced by gender stereotyping.

I know there's nothing to stop me going down the "boys" aisle for something for DD, but it's the message she's receiving that somehow she's not in the right place for her gender that gets up my nose. Luckily DD is now 12 and is beginning to understand what is going on. DS aged 8 is not quite there yet.

FryOneFatManic · 16/11/2012 17:08

The point is, if marketing didn't work, there'd be no adverts on tv, on billboards, on radio, in newspapers, magazines, etc, etc. It is all around us, so you'd need to live in a cave to ensure you don't see/hear, etc any advertising.

SomersetONeil · 16/11/2012 17:49

Fakebook - I didn't call you stupid; that was your word.

These threads always, always, get at least one person coming on to say, 'there's no problem - stop over-thinking it'.

I find it maddening. Stopping thinking about it certainly sweeps the problem under the rug, but it absolutely does not solve it or make it go away.

The reason I brought the Asda Christmas ad into the mix is because of the much bigger picture that social conditioning and gender stereotyping impact on.

When our children's paths in lives are already being determined at such a young age - it feeds into expectations that are placed on us as adults. The woman doing all the housework while her useless husband does absoutley nothing is the thick end of the wedge; gender-specific toys is the thin.

If you (generic) think the one doesn't feed into the other, you're mistaken.

ThePerfectFather · 16/11/2012 18:05

Firstly she's only 3 and a half, so until very recently her friends haven't been saying things like "I like Lelly Kelly, don't you". The peer pressure element is minimal. Most of her playmates have been boys. This is purely coincidence and based on who I know and the sex of their kids, rather than some plan on my part.

Secondly, most of her character and her life experience has been shared with me. I don't like glitter, I don't like Barbies and I don't wear pink (much). Kids take almost all their cues from their parents, and especially their primary caregiver, i.e. me. She says things that I say, likes things that I like, and tries to copy me and please me a lot of the time, like most young children do with their parents. There are also lots of things I have tried to encourage her to enjoy, but which she hates.

Because despite all that influence from me, she seeks out toys and games that she knows I don't have any interest in, like Barbies and Lelly bleedin' Kelly.

Why?

If I had a boy, he would doubtless seek out games that he likes and I have an interest in too - is he doing that to please me? If so, why isn't she? Why is she fulfilling a gender stereotype to which she has limited exposure? Oh yeah, because of marketing and societal pressures. Of course.

But what pressures do you think society exerts on a two-or-three year old kid? Given her incredibly limited understanding of things, just how greatly do you think she can be impressed upon?

She only started going to pre-school six months ago, and most of the time we spent out and about as a twosome and then when the baby arrived, as three. She hasn't spent 3 years strapped to a chair watching adverts for Barbie since when she watches telly it's almost always CBeebies, which has minimal advertising and is generally pretty gender neutral.

She's young so she's only just starting to understand that there are men and women and they are different. She has never EVER been told "that's for boys" or "that's for girls" by me or any of our friends. You don't hear those words on television since, rightly, everyone would complain.

Most of the women on this forum are raising their kids, and those kids will be exhibiting behaviour that's more typical of their gender stereotype. Are the boys acting like boys and that's society or marketing or some other outside influence? Are the girls acting like girls because they are copying their Mums?

If boys act "like boys", is that down to society? Does the fact they've been raised by their Mother's mean that the Mother's feminine influence is negligible? Do kids try their best to act like the kids on TV and ignore the 24/7 influence of their parents?

I just think it's incredibly foolish to say that society and marketing are what is making my three year old act the way she has ever since she was a baby. It ignores the fact that we share over 90% of our DNA with chimps. We're animals who have evolved to have higher brain functions, but at our core we are still animals and a lot of how and why we act is down to instinct and DNA.

Otherwise what you're basically saying is that the nature vs nurture debate is happily settled, and it's all TVs fault and nature plays very little part. I really, really disagree and I think nature plays a huge part in deciding who we are.

MrsDeVere · 16/11/2012 18:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThePerfectFather · 16/11/2012 18:23

MrsDeVere, that's just pathetic. That is just the most pathetically feeble response you could possibly have come up with. At no point do I even hint at anything remotely like that.

Or should I say "your tiny female brain couldn't comprehend my comment, now get back to your knitting". Happy now?

Oh wait, this is "Mumsnet" so maybe we SAHD's aren't welcome here.

Just like all the places offering "mum and toddler" mornings that you all no doubt boycott. And all the ads saying "Mums! Are bathtimes a chore?" that you rage about and lobby against.

Oh wait, you don't, because it's just easier than having a sign saying "Mums, Dads, Transgender People + children of non-specific gender! Coffee or mineral water and playgroup morning here"!

It's just a shorthand. It's just easier. A shop has a section that groups the boys toys and girls toys together, and people are getting upset and claiming that society is corrupting and influencing their kids. It's pathetic. The only thing more pathetic is the idea that my opinion - whether you agree with it or not - is sexist or "male".

5madthings · 16/11/2012 18:31

of course three year olds are affected by advertising and its nto just on tv.

and cbeebies isnt gender neutral either, someone doesnt have to say something is for girls of boys for them to get that message, its int he advertising and the way its promoted, every picture that shows lelli kelly shoes is of girls and often with wands/make up etc. they appeal to all children because they are sparkly and colourful, hell my boys liked them as toddlers as well, but you can be dam sure as soon as they start pre-school they do start picking up the messages that htey are for girls and the adverts are aimed at girls.

look at 'towardsthestars' a fb group for those interested in the impact of mainstream media and advertising on children. its a great page.

and yes its blood annoying tha ti go online to look for toys and they are listed as 'girls' or 'boys' toys, list them in categories that describe what they actually ARE, not who they are marketed to!

carovioletfizz · 16/11/2012 18:32

I agree with a lot of what you say TPF. People are born with likes and dislikes. I hate curry and being too hot, but love avocado and also, sparkly stuff. Why can this not be down to instinct, and personal taste, rather than the insidious evil marketing giants? Some little girls like pink, glittery things. Not because they've been told to, but because that is their taste. What is so wrong with that?

carovioletfizz · 16/11/2012 18:36

Can I just add, that our little boy regularly goes around in his sister's pink nappies that are hand me downs, drinks from a pink beaker and plays with her pink dolls house. I don't deliberately direct any of my children towards one particular things - it is my experience of my own childhood and of my children, that children do just have their own likes and dislikes and there's nothing wrong with that if those likes happen to include a little girl liking pink, fairies and sparkles.

ClippedPhoenix · 16/11/2012 18:39

I tend to rather agree with you there TPF.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with boys being boys and girls being girls and toys being sectioned.

Equality isn't about gender specifics etc. It's about acknowledging our differences, understanding them and knowing we are equal in differing ways and fully respecting them.

If that makes sense Confused

sunshine401 · 16/11/2012 18:40

I've never seen a "boys section" ??? However if you have a mind set that certain toys mean a certain gender then you will see a "boys section" All I see and my children for that matter is the TOYS AISLE. :)

5madthings · 16/11/2012 18:43

there is nothing wrong with any child liking pink, boy or girl, its the incessant marketing of pink and glittery that is aimed at girls that is the problem.

and your little boy may well wander around in pink now, you can almost guarantee once he starts school that if he continued to do so it may become a problem.

we have been lucky that the primary my kids attend does lots of dress up/role play etc, they make no distinction between the genders, but at the age of almost 8 my ds3 has decided on his own not to wear his tutu/fairy outfits out as 'boys arent meant to wear them mummy' :( i was slated on ment for saying i was going to buy him a new fairy dress (which he asked for) apparently iwas setting him up to be bullied etc. that is wrong, girls are allowed to do 'boy' things yet it is frowned up for boys to like 'girly' things and they kids do pick up on this through advertising and once at pre-school and school.

ClippedPhoenix · 16/11/2012 18:44

Oh stop jumping on words sunshine, you know what I mean. I for one have gone on the net and typed in boys toys say in argos for instance and guess what came up it cetainly wasn't a pair of fairy wings, so bloody what.

5madthings · 16/11/2012 18:44

go online sunshine look at the toys section for most retailers ie john lewis, boots etc and the drop down boxes to help you choose toys give you the option of clicking girls/boys and some toy stores still ahve signs up saying girls/boys i think entertainer is one, or the signage is all done in pink or blue, even if they dont explicitly say it the implication is there.

ClippedPhoenix · 16/11/2012 18:45

But of course if my son wanted a pushchair I'd go type in girls toys, does it really matter, saves me frigging time to be honest. Grin

MrsDeVere · 16/11/2012 18:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sunshine401 · 16/11/2012 18:48

lol I don't do online shopping sorry
However it does not annoy me :)

5madthings · 16/11/2012 18:48

if you go to the john lewis toy section the box on your left lets you pick toys by age, brand, character and girls or boys toys, why? there is no need to specify that a toy is for a girl or a boy!

sunshine401 · 16/11/2012 18:50

ClippedPhoenix

I was not even responding to a comment from you calm down :)
I was answering to the op.