To think (D) P attitude stinks re the war dead

[Shinyshoes1]

My son is a sea cadet and he's marching for rememberance Sunday .
For a start he huffed and puffed when I said we'd be attending reminding him that our son is among those marching in memory of the fallen and in support for our serving forces
He then moaned that we've arrived 25 minutes early . He's now pissed off for a coffee
Among the comments he's made today they've included
"I don't know anyone that has died in the war "
"in what way does respecting those in wars affect me "
"speaking German would make no difference to me as we'd know no different"
"Those serving in wars at the moment know the risks when they sign up"
" I didn't ask our country to go to war with Iraq and afghanistan "

I'm literally frothing at the mouth and I've told him that I'll teach my children to respect. He's now pissed off to the coffee shop where I hope he fucking chokes on his latte .
AIBU to think he's a fucking disrespectful cunt

[OwedToAutumn]

Honeytea, can I respectfully out that many people who "signed up" for the wars fought in the last century were conscripted. Others, who "volunteered" did so on the basis of early release from prison.

So, they may've known the risks, but they didn't always get to choose.

[t0lk13n]

Did he come out of the coffee shop or did he sulk in there like a petulant child?

[honeytea]

Honeytea, can I respectfully out that many people who "signed up" for the wars fought in the last century were conscripted. Others, who "volunteered" did so on the basis of early release from prison.

So, they may've known the risks, but they didn't always get to choose.

But what the OP's DP said was that the people fighting in wars at the moment. I think that the world wars need to be remembered seperatly to the more recent wars, the lessons that need to be learnt and not forgotten are so very different in my opinion.

[SlightlySuperiorPeasant]

I would not have been impressed. It does a world of good to lay aside political and ideological differences and spend a few minutes thinking about the terrified boys, men and women on all sides who gave their lives, health and youth in a horrific, IMO pointless, war that changed the course of world history. The wars that have come since are within living memory for many people and we still keep getting it wrong - Bosnia, anyone? How much worse if we decide that history isn't relevant to today.

[mayorquimby]

Don't think it's as black and white as many like to think, so I'd say that your husband is entitled to his opinion.

For WW1 & 2 I don't think anyone can really doubt that it was a just war and that the sacrifice was truely for the greater good.
More recent wars I can see why people would want to distance themselves from them.
I know many people will feel that soldiers don't have a say in what wars are fought etc. which is a fair point, but at the same time those who have no great love for the members of the military will point out that no matter what they still would not carry out orders which resulted in the deaths of innocents etc.

I don't think either point is right or wrong, for those who see soldiers of recent wars as career soldiers etc. who knew the risk when they signed up they have a point. As do the side which would condemn such views as soldiers have no real control.
I don't think it's a clear cut issue, just because he feels differently to you doesn't make him a disrespectful cunt imho. I don't think the argument that soldiers are fighting for our freedom etc. holds weight anymore as none of the recent wars have been to stave off invasion etc.

[puds11]

He's a fucking twat. It's people like this that is what is wrong with our country.

I was talking to my Ex this morning saying that i find it depressing to think that in 40years or so Remembrance Day may have disappeared due to the lack of people alive in the war or people who had parents that remember the war. I hope it never happens, but i think it will

Also, who cares why your son is parading, he should be there simply to show him support!

Leave the bastard!

[Thisisaeuphemism]

"speaking German would make no difference to me as we'd know no different"

That IS fairly black and white. He is a twat.

[SauvignonBlanche]

"Those serving in wars at the moment know the risks when they sign up"
" I didn't ask our country to go to war with Iraq and afghanistan "

I agree with him on these 2 points, but I think his other opinions and his timing are bad.

[FermezLaBouche]

I'm still betting this was nothing to do with the issue of remembering the victims of war - he was just being a petulant wanker because he had to something he didn't want to, namely stand outside for a couple of hours supporting your son.

OP did you make your feeling clear to him afterwards? Hope you're ok.

[RuleBritannia]

honeytea and mayorquimby

Have you forgotten about the Falklands War just 30 years ago? There are plenty of veterans from that who are still around - and some not. Should we have stood aside and let the Argentinians take those islands which are inhabited by British people? I was there recently and so many of them said how grateful they are to those who gave for them. Drew tears.

[FrankelDeBeauvoir]

Why do so many people assume that people that join the Forces do so to fight? People join the Forces for many, many reasons and the fact is that the majority of them are not in "fighting" roles. They are in support, supply, medical, etc positions.

[SauvignonBlanche]

I remember the Falklands war very well.
I don't think many remember that the original settlers were French. I imagine many tears were also shed when the British took forceful control in 1832.

[SauvignonBlanche]

I love the reflective side of the remembrance service, I just ant stand the jingoism.
A retired Major General was interviewed on the BBC his morning he described the night he lost 5 men from his platoon in the Falklands as a "great night" and the conflict as "great war". I doubt his sentiments were shared by teenage conscripts.

[mayorquimby]

"honeytea and mayorquimby

Have you forgotten about the Falklands War just 30 years ago?"

No haven't forgotten, but I am Irish so I remember British soldiers using northern Irish Catholics as punching bags and target practice.
My only point is that there's no black and white here. Soldiers in Northern Ireland were not there to protect freedom, stop invasion or quash a dictatorship.
I can see clearly why many will feel uncomfortable with remembering the sacrifices of soldiers who they feel were part of unjust wars or were in fact the oppressive forces etc
I can also clearly understand the importance of the military in British society and why many feel it proper to pay respect to their actions.
I think those who try and portray the acts of soldiers as fighting for our freedoms and wholly absolving them of responsibility for their decisions are just as disengenuos as those who go for an equally extreme "it's just a job they knew the risks when they signed up etc"

[FrankelDeBeauvoir]

Blame Governments for unjust Wars/Battles, not individual servicemen and women.

[TheWombat]

Hello :)
My husband was horrifically injured during operations in Iraq. It's something he, I and our family live with every day. My DH would hate to be heroicised or pitied for his injuries. As you've said, it was his choice to sign up.
I just wanted to point out a couple of things though:

When you are commissioned to serve your country, you can't pick your battles. My husband was injured in Iraq fighting for a cause he didn't support and in a war of dubious lawfulness. He is furious with Tony Blair for his decisions at that time and is vocal about that. For many people like my DH it is hard to come to terms with the fact that he fought and was injured under those circumstances. So yes, people sign up out of choice, but times change and many years later, you can be sent somewhere you hadn't considered - and saying no is a military crime - not following orders is an offence against the Queen, effectively treason, and punishable as such.

I understand that some people choose not to wear poppies, or don't want to remember on 11/11. Everyone has charities that feel more or less relevant to them. But it means such a lot to my DH when he sees a town centre stop, just for a couple of minutes, and remember the horrors of war with him. It's not glamourising or celebrating war. It's not a political thing, to me. It's just a chance to acknowledge the awfulness and in some way, i think it allows normal life to seem a little bit less trivial, the rest of the time. Walking down the high street can be tough for my DH sometimes. But for a few days after 11/11, it seems a little bit less unfriendly and he feels just a little bit less isolated. I am grateful to the people who attend those ceremonies. Thank you OP and the others who did that today :)


To those people who think it's up to the government, not charity, to look after injured service personnel: I agree. However, the Royal British Legion and Help for Heroes have helped in ways that are beyond monetary. Through them, our family went on a respite holiday in a RBL 'hotel', and we might be getting a support dog to help DH be more confident and mobile. I can't wait! Those are additional things that have made such a difference to our lives, but I wouldn't want them to be taken out of the taxpayers' pot when there are so many other things to pay for - schools, hospitals etc.

I'm not sure if I have worded this well - sorry for the long post. OP I think your DH is entitled to not want to remember on 11/11, but perhaps he just needs to inform himself better so that his arguments are less 'black and white'.

[SauvignonBlanche]

I think you worded it very well Wombat, I do hope your DH gets his dog.

[RuleBritannia]

Thank you TheWombat

You have explained so very well what others of us were trying to say.

[MadameJosephine]

YADNBU!

Whatever his views, his attitude does indeed stink. I dont agree with his viewpoint but if he genuinely felt this way he could have discussed this with you earlier and simply stayed away. As it is he disrespected not only the war dead but also you and your DS. Totally unacceptable - I think I would be seriously reconsidering my relationship if this was my DP!

[limitedperiodonly]

YABU.

There's a nasty, bullying and completely unthinking attitude that's grown up in the last 10 years and people should really think about it rather than posturing.

I respect the people who have served in recent conflicts and want to support them but I don't idolise or patronise them.

Do you think about it or do you just do it because wearing a poppy looks good?

I wore a poppy today because of my father who volunteered in the 2nd world war. That was my choice. But I would never judge someone else. And more importantly, he would never judge me and would probably be baffled. He wanted to forget it and get on with life.

My father volunteered because it was inevitable and by doing that at least he got a bit of a choice of where he was going and got to stick with his brother. Those young men thought they were luckier having a weapon in their hands than the people stuck at home in the bombing raids hiding in Anderson shelters and tube lines to be crushed. Often they took their chances in the cinemas or dance halls because they were young. Think about that?

He survived the war but never wore a poppy. My mother's teenage years were ruined. She and her sisters were called up for home war work, and their education, such as it was, were ruined. They didn't complain - even suffering bomb raids every night and seeing the most horrendous things in the morning - body parts, dead people. She's never bought a poppy either but because she's nearly 90 no-one questions her.

I expect you wouldn't dare either. Because she lived through it and would have some real answers for you.

Have a care.

[GhostShip]

Thats actually disgusting. How ignorant and naive can one person be? I couldn't be with something like that.

[GhostShip]

limited

Have a care?? Wtf? Her husband is being an obnoxious idiot. Its nothing to do with the not wearing a poppy, it's his whole self centered attitude towards it.

[hobnobsaremyfavourite]

"Have a care" WTAF does that mean ?

[Alisvolatpropiis]

I think "have a care" means consider others reasons for their choices?

Maybe?

Have never heard the phrase before but in context with what was written I think that's what it means?

[GothAnneGeddes]

YANBU - he's being an arse.

However - WW2 did not happen to stop the Holocaust and I wish people would stop stating otherwise. Especially as it covers the fact that many Western countries refused to accept Jewish refugees, hence they weren't able to escape their fate in Germany.

Also freedom equals the freedom to question, that is vitally important, particularly when the conflicts we are currently involved are so unjust and harmful.