To think (D) P attitude stinks re the war dead

[Shinyshoes1]

My son is a sea cadet and he's marching for rememberance Sunday .
For a start he huffed and puffed when I said we'd be attending reminding him that our son is among those marching in memory of the fallen and in support for our serving forces
He then moaned that we've arrived 25 minutes early . He's now pissed off for a coffee
Among the comments he's made today they've included
"I don't know anyone that has died in the war "
"in what way does respecting those in wars affect me "
"speaking German would make no difference to me as we'd know no different"
"Those serving in wars at the moment know the risks when they sign up"
" I didn't ask our country to go to war with Iraq and afghanistan "

I'm literally frothing at the mouth and I've told him that I'll teach my children to respect. He's now pissed off to the coffee shop where I hope he fucking chokes on his latte .
AIBU to think he's a fucking disrespectful cunt

[LadyMercy]

Leaving aside the fact that you're husband is being a prat, couldn't he just pipe down and support his son?! He should be proud, not hiding in a coffee shop practising his german.

[Frontpaw]

How can anyone not see the old soldiers in their uniforms with watery eyes remembering their comrades and what they went through, and not feel something? Isn't a bit of respect the very least you can offer?

My grandfather enlisted on day 1 of WW2 and saw action at Normandy, was there at the liberation of death camps soon after they were opened and smelled the burned corpses, he led a bomb disposal team during the blitz... All sorts of shit because his parents had fought in WW1 and he knew that it was important to stop the nazis.

For those who live in the UK with the 'nowt to do with me' attitude, have you not read your history? What would happen in the UK had the war not been won? What happened in Poland, Russia, Hungary, France... People were rounded up amnd slaughtered. Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally and physically disabled and more. Get a history book and read up on whayt you should be thankful for. Whether you agree with war or not, the option to 'stand back and do nothing' is often not an option at all.

[cuillereasoupe]

I can understand not wanting to take part in "official" commemorations if you think that the same state apparatus is now honouring the dead it was responsible for sending to war. However, that doesn't seem to be OP's DP's stance.

[ladymariner]

Havn't you got school in the morning ladyladuree?

[Alisvolatpropiis]

lovelyladuree you don't half have an odd outlook on life.

[Kewcumber]

"something they know nothing about" - if he knows nothing about it then I'll add uneducated to petulant, sulky and childish.

I've observed 2 minute silences for any number of tragic events which involved people I didn't know. Should I have talked all the way through them then?

[Kewcumber]

I've never cried at a remembrance service
There are many ways he could have refused that I wouldn't have found petulant, sulky and childish.
I'm a devout atheist and manage to sit through a nativity play every year because its important for my DS. That alone would drag to to a service even if I didn't want to go.

[Kewcumber]

though as DS is mixed race BNP not a likely prospect in our house

[lovelyladuree]

Why should he care? Like he says, he doesn't know anyone who has died in a war. YABU. Poor bloke. No wonder he went to the coffee shop. Doesn't want to watch a bunch of people crying over something they know nothing about.

[Kewcumber]

Fighting (apt name!) I'd like to think that anyone with half a brain wouldn't dismiss the contribution of anyone on this thread regardless of their nationality. And whats more I agree with your post. Despite the fact that day (in the UK) is to commemorate commonwealth armed forces, I too feel that it's more of a personal reflection on the sad loss of life of (predominantly) young men robbed of a future.

WW1 is a dubious war to defend however the wholesale slaughter (caused as much by our hierarchy as much as the enemy) of terribly young innocent men is so sad that I find it hard to resist a pause and a thought for those men and their families on the day. WW2 however is clearly more easy to defend - it wasn't a war we wanted and in fact were pretty slow to engage in and was on the whole fairly well fought tactically (at least to the best of our ability). Its true that the holocaust wasn't known about at the time war was started but I think its certainly reasonable to say that had we not (pretty much single handedly at one point) faced Hitler down then the world would likely look a very different place today - and not one I would find terribly attractive. Speaking German is neither here nor there.

All this is really besides the point - I don't think for a second that the OP DH's is taking some kind of moral stance. Its generally not difficult to spot that someone believes something very strongly, they talk about it, they act, they make their views plain throughout the year. They also tend to respect the views of others. OP's DH isn't doing that - he is disrespecting the views of OP and their son by his childish sulkiness.

I have great respect for anyone who is prepared to put time and energy into something they believe and if my teenager decides to give up his Sunday morning to honour the dead who fought then I'll be there holding his coat because I'll be proud that he is prepared to stand up and be counted - for any cause. Unless he joins the BNP in which case I'll take it all back

[Liskey]

It's sad that the ops DH felt that he didn't want to support their son and that he felt Remberance Sunday hadn't relevance to him. I'd disagree and say its relevant to everyone to remember people who have died in wars.

Fighting the Mess - i think it doesn't matter about your nationality, soldiers were fighting, following orders - I'd prefer to think about this internationally about all people being affected in wars.

My own Gran was German (& married a British soldier at the end of WW2) and she collected for the RBL till the end of her life as she believed in how they help ex-service people.

[FightingTheMess]

Thank you for taking my post the way it was intended The wombat. I wasn't sure whether I should maybe not post on here due to not being British.

I am glad that you found the collected money to be of use to you in such a difficult time. It's good to hear that the RBL is helping people very directly like that. I didn't mean to imply that they shouldn't collect money, I just wish help like you mentioned would be available anyway. I lived in the States for a while as well and I think it's shameful that soldiers there have to live on the streets due to not being able to work due to injuries. I think people who are fighting for our countries should get a lot of support and be treated with dignity.

I hope your DH is doing better now.

(And I realise I used deaths instead of dead in my previous post, sorry about that).

[TheWombat]

FightingtheMess I agree re: using the day for personal reflections. I think a lot of the posts on this thread show that we relate to Remembrance Day through our own experiences - that's what brings the awfulness of war into relief. And that's (partly) why this is such a emotive time,and why it's such an easy thing for politicians to manipulate - because it's an issue that strikes at the heart of many families in so many different ways and in different magnitudes, through generations.

On a different issue, I have to say that from my experience, the work of the Royal British Legion does not replace or substitute government provision for wounded service people. However, it helps to make life easier in other ways. For example, after his injury my DH claims DLA (disability living allowance) from the govt. But claiming DLA is quite complicated, and a man from the RBL patiently and calmly helped my brain injured DH and I fill out a DLA form that would otherwise have been quite challenging and traumatic to fill out. We were - and still are - enormously grateful.

[FightingTheMess]

I read the discussion on page three and found that quite relevant re only British/Commonwealth soldiers being remembered.

I am German but living in the UK and have used the last few days and today to reflect on my own feelings on all of this. I know this day is not for for 'my soldiers', i.e. the ones fighting for my country but that doesn't stop me from using the time to think about my grandpa who was badly injured in WWII and who saw horrible things when captured and detained by the RUssians for years after the war. Or other soldiers just like him. Most of them young boys who did not want to fight and were very scared.
But it also makes me feel INCREDIBLY grateful that especially during WWII British soldiers were brave enough to stand up to what was obviously wrong and gave me my freedom that way. I had a lovely childhood in Germany and know I would not have if no one would have stood up against the evil that was happening over there in the 30s and 40s. So I am thinking of all the American and British soldiers that lost their lives as well. I don;t think remembrance really has some sort of limit, you can think about everyone at the same time.

At the same time I find the poppy appeal very interesting. I do not think it should be necessary as soldiers and troops should be supported enough by the state, it's very sad that charities have to collect for them.

I also do not agree with a lot of the wars that have been happening in the last few years. I do think people today have more information (internet, TV) and choices in regards to whether they want to join armed forces (due to the welfare system). We are in a generally better position than 100 years ago. That does not mean I feel less sorry for any soldier wounded or killed and I have deepest sympathies for their families, but I understand that some people might be worried they show 'support for war' rather than 'support for troops and the deaths' if that makes sense. I personally can differentiate between the two and keep my feelings separate but some people don't seem to be able to do that.

I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post, just wanted to share my feelings as someone from the outside if that makes sense.

[Corygal]

YANBU - ewwww. For many people, the greatest tragedy of war is that real, decent men and women died to defend your DP and the cruelty and stupidity he embodies. But they're too civilised to say so.

It's terribly, terribly sad.

[honeytea]

Isn't the point that we are lucky enough through the brave actions of many people to be able to ask questions and have opinions. Just because we don't all agree it doesn't mean that the people with opposing opinions are thick or cunts. OP's DP sounds like he has gone about it in a not so appropriate way, just before his son was in the parade isn't really the time or place to bring these questions up, but some of the questions I think are valid and i think by asking those questions actually shows respect for our freedom that was fought for.

[TheWombat]

SauvignonBlanche thank you! We are excited about the dog prospect, I think it will be such a help.

RuleBritannia thank you - not easy to word these things, I think because it raises so many conflicted emotions: guilt, rage, responsibility, grief.

chibi I know what you mean about politicians carrying wreaths of poppies - makes me uncomfortable too. Has anyone seen the episode of 'the thick of it' where the politician has to carry a wreath, and is most worried about what she looks like and 'practices' the walk with her PA in her office? Cringeworthy and I suspect, quite close to te truth..

[catgirl1976]

YANBU

2 years ago my DBros best friend was killed in Afghanistan. He was 28. He died disarming an IED. He had disarmed hundreds before saving many lives.

He had not told his DM or his fiancee the nature of his job as he didn't want to worry them

His funeral was the single, saddest thing I have ever witnessed. The entire town lined the streets for the funeral procession in total silence. At the church his fiancee broke down, his younger brother broke down and his mother at one point just started sobbing "my baby, my baby" over and over again.

He was 28. He was a bright, kind funny loving young man who left a brother, a fiancee and a lot of friends heartbroken and a mother totally destroyed. And he is just one of thousands and thousands of people who have given their lives in service.

I marched against the war in Iraq. I am a pacifist

It does not stop me mourning and honoring the war dead.

Nor should it your DP.

[Nigglenaggle]

Hmm I'm sure he must have some redeeming qualities but stuggling to see why you are with him from the post. His views are his own, the sad thing really is that he feels so able to pour scorn on something which is important to your son rather than go with the 'I have concerns about this day which are XYZ, but I'm proud you are marching here' route.

[freddiefrog]

But limited the OP's point was not about wearing poppies, but the disrespectful comments her partner made.

Everyone has different experiences.

My maternal grandfather and his 3 brothers went off to war. Only my grandfather came back. He was at the liberation of Bergen-Belsen. His war experiences screwed him up for the rest of his life. He wore his poppy with pride every single year.

My paternal grandfather was a Japanese POW, he lost many of his friends. He also wore his poppy with pride every single year

One grandmother worked in an ammunition factory, the other was a land girl. They wore (and still wear) their poppies.

I wear mine out of respect and memory of my own grandfathers, my children took part in our local remembrance service today out of respect.

You have your experiences and opinions, I have mine.

[GhostShip]

What the actual hell are you talking about.

What has your mothers experiences got to do with the OP's DP being downright rude and ignorant in regards to the war and the people involved in it?

Your mother saw the war.. yes okay? So did many other people...? Your mother might not have that opinion but it doesn't mean its right. Others who have also been through the same as your mother have completely different opinions.

My nana for example. Who lost a brother, a partner, and many friends.

We all can share anecdotes

[limitedperiodonly]

Yeah ghostship what has my mother's real experience of 1939-45 and the years after got to do with anything?

What do her own experiences, the opinions of her beloved husband and friends count and the experiences of younger people who've lost sons in recent and current conflicts count?

How old are you, what have you experienced? What do you know?

Do fill me in. I'm truly fascinated.

[chibi]

remembrance day is very different here than in my home country (canada). i have some complicated feelings about it is here- sometimes it seems to me to have a sort of political flavour to it, whereas back home i rmemeber it being the kind of solemnity you feel, as at standing at the side of a grave. not so much a gratefulness, or, support the troops! as a silent recognition of the scale of carnage.

i don't know. it may be different there now.

i don't know how to express how i feel, on remembrance day here there is this regret at the loss of young lives, which seems to be able to coexist with sending more young people ever on to die in faraway places. i know i feel queasy when i see politicians laying wreaths of poppies.

i am probably not explaining this well.

[GhostShip]

What has your mothers opinion got to do with the OP's pig headed ignorant husband?

[limitedperiodonly]

I said 'have a care' because carefully consulted my mother's opinion deliberately before commenting on this thread.

I think you should respect the opinion of someone who lived though something like this, suffered personally and watched others suffer too. Or do you think wearing a poppy, which is what I do out of sentimental reasons,
trumps her experience of six years? And the years after?

Her opinion is that people pay lip service to people of her era and people of current era who are killed or damaged. I think she's right. Who gives a shit about people's day-to-day lives?

I also think that though people should freely give to charities if they want, if service personnel are injured in the line of duty they should be fully supported and compensated by our govt and country.

That's not happening.

I also think the attitude towards Remembrance Day, the arms race about who's wearing a poppy or not is unthinking and bullying even though I give generously to the appeal every year in memory of my father. If he was still around he wouldn't care.