... ask MNers to boycott Starbucks?

[legoballoon]

Personally, I won't be spending any money there again.

When I read the 'we pay our fair share of tax' statement, I almost choked on my (home made) hot chocolate. It's one law for the rich, another for us now is it?!

I think we should support small, UK-based independent coffee shops. Let's support businesses that generate wealth that is shared by local people.

DH announced last night that he is buying a coffee machine for the kitchen. When I pointed out that neither of us drink coffee he said he'd use it to make hot chocolate. When I pointed out that we would still need to add marshmallows, whipped cream and cinnamon by hand he said that that was ok, it didn't take long and the machine would do the mixing bit for us. When I then raised my eyebrows and said that was a very expensive teaspoon, he realised the error of his ways

I want the syrup recipe! I have nommy Azera coffee which is apparently Barista style instant and would love to make a syrup to go with it

Who wants to listen to boring tax facts when a boycott is so much more exciting?

I'm afraid I can't get het up over this. I don't go to Starbucks if I can help it, but only because their coffee is vile and tastes like dishwater. Pret do a good coffee though....

However, if a multinational corporation legally and legitimately reduces its tax bill, then why should I boycott them? If you have issues with the tax legislation, take it up with your MP. Starbucks helps to create jobs by opening stores - no-one is forcing anyone to go there if they don't want to. And, arguably, the fact that Starbucks et al have had such an impact on the way that people think about coffee in the last 20 years, means that independent coffee shops have been able to open, as more people become fussier about what they drink (for example - www.fleetriverbakery.com/). I doubt many individuals would willingly pay significant amounts of tax if there was a legal way to avoid it - I know I wish my tax bill was lower. So I think it's a bit hypocritical and misplaced to vent against multinationals when they're doing something that is legal and makes good business sense to do so.

There's a good article in the Guardian today.

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/oct/16/tax-biggest-us-companies-uk

Note that although collectively the US companies involved has sales of £116bn, their book profits were only £5bn. Tax paid was £1.5bn - more than you would expect given the corporation tax rate in the UK last year was 24%.

Note also that Facebook's audited revenue was only £20m. Way, way less than the estimate by 'industry experts' of £175m.

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/oct/16/tax-biggest-us-companies-uk

True peasant

I understand why it bothers people but boycotting won't change tax laws. Any loss of revenue will effect staff wages, overtime etc. I can't fetal enthusiastic about potential job losses for minimum wage workers.

*feel enthusiastic

I'd join a boycott if it's protesting them wanting my name to call me. Irritiating faux friendliness. Tax - well as said that's a much bigger problem that you need to raise with the people you vote for. Starbucks are only doing what the law allows - you put the Tories in place and then moan about these practices?

I'm tickled my the idea of mailing the CEO. Dear CEO please pay more tax than legally required. Good luck with that.

Starbucks aren't doing what the law allows - they're doing what the law demands - pricing their intragroup transactions on arm's length terms!

Don't get me wrong - the transfer pricing legislation is anti-avoidance, but it's designed to stop companies pricing transactions artificially high, so as to reduce UK profits and UK tax.

If Starbucks were paying £100 per kilo for coffee beans when the market rate were £10 (no idea what the going rate is) then they would be trying to avoid UK taxes. But in that scenario the transfer pricing legislation would kick in to stop them. They would be obliged to use a price of £10 per kilo in their tax computations irrespective of the price they actually paid. But that's not what they're doing.

Market rates, people, that's what Starbucks are paying for their roasted coffee beans.

Starfuckers sell "coffee" tastes like inspid dishwater and that's (one of the reasons I haven't been inside one for many years). However I will boycott them too.

I worked at Starbucks for 5 years, my best friend still works there, I still go in there all the time and the new Salted Caramel Mocha is delish.

If you all want to have a strop about them doing something legal - honestly, you won't be missed. It's not like you will put them out of business. I just find this sort of petulant 'let's boycott everything' attitude really silly..

I will, the coffee is rubbish and over-priced.

Presumably you're all also boycotting the BBC who was found to be assisting 1,500 staff in avoiding taxes as well? Yes?

Unfortunately if you boycott the BBC (something I'd do very happily), you will go to jail. Unless you throw away your TV entirely that is.

About 5 years ago Starbucks came in for a lot of criticism about their use of water. Their dishwashers used a running stream of water to get contents clean, which uses a lot more water than conventional dishwashers.

Evil bastards, I thought.

Until it turned out that they'd spent a fortune on environmental consultants to find out what method of washing up caused the least environmental damage. The consultants told them that it's the detergent that's the real issue, and that using pure running water was much better. So Starbucks spent literally millions upgrading all of their dishwashers and washing up facilities.

And still got criticised...

peachy the zoo cafe used to do gorgeous coffee in Newport and I may had had one (delivery too!) every day while I was working...
They're closed now though :(

The secrect garden cafe on charles street is supposed to be good it is owned by a friend of mine but I've never actually been in there

I love starbucks, but can't afford it at the mo. But I'll pretend I'm not having it cause I'm boycotting and stay home drinking Nescafe like Worra...

Oh God. Another misunderstanding, this time about the BBC. Is it worth me debunking this one? I will if anyone's listening...

I am boycotting the BBC
tv licence went the way of the starbucks in frugal times

Gingerbread Syrup
2 cups water
1 1/2 cups granulated sugar
2 1/2 teaspoons ground ginger
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract

Combine the water, sugar, cinnamon, ginger, and vanilla in a small to medium saucepan.
Bring mixture to a boil then reduce heat and simmer uncovered for 20 minutes. When done, pour into a melt-proof container and let cool. It will thicken a bit more once cooled.

so far as I am aware the government encouraged the BBC to take lots of staff off the payroll and put them onto contracts so as to avoid pension, redundancy and NI costs. I will see if I can find the link. And presumably its not the BBC avoiding tax but the individuals concerned??

"Market rates, people, that's what Starbucks are paying for their roasted coffee beans."

Totally wide of the mark, nothing to do with beans at all.

Starbucks pay 6% of sales to, er, Starbucks, for use of their brand name.

This ain't about beans.

They have an entirely arbitrary fee that ensures that Starbucks UK makes a loss, while sending £millions in untaxed profits royalties abroad.

If Costa were able to divert an arbitrary percentage of their sales overseas, they wouldn't pay any taxes either.

But they don't, they are owned by Whitbread, a UK firm, and sending 6% from Whitbread to Whitbread would still result in UK taxes being paid. (Of course it's likely that Whitbread could set up complex offshore structures to avoid this, but they haven't, and I personally am grateful that they do not.)

The worldwide taxation system is complex and essentially unreformable.

For this reason, it is absolutely the correct response when a company selling a discretionary consumer product is on the one hand spouting off about 'fair trade' yet with the other busily avoiding taxes in the UK, to say "I will not spend money in this restaurant."

Telling people to complain to their MP is simply absurd.

Veeeeery simple folks. Don't like Starbucks business practices? Don't shop there.

But please don't kid ourselves that we can change the entire world order.

Oooh, yum! thanks storminabuttercup

with added gingerbread syrup - mmmm