... ask MNers to boycott Starbucks?

[legoballoon]

Personally, I won't be spending any money there again.

When I read the 'we pay our fair share of tax' statement, I almost choked on my (home made) hot chocolate. It's one law for the rich, another for us now is it?!

I think we should support small, UK-based independent coffee shops. Let's support businesses that generate wealth that is shared by local people.

I suppose the UK could introduce an additional tax for foreign companies on all marginal profits associated with trading in the UK (so excluding fixed costs transferred from other offices). I think that would get tons of support from other European countries and Alex Salmond.

Well done, Cinnabar, for all that good research and analysis upthread.

Unfortunately the majority of posters seem not prepared to accept Or understand the figures and will still keep assuming that the press headlines tell the whole story.

Once the popular press has got hold of an idea it is totally oblivious to the facts.

I would also like to ask mnetters to boycott ALL large coffee shop chains. These companies are causing small local coffee shops all over the country to close down by setting up shop next door. I've been boycotting Starbucks for years mainly because their coffee is crap and overpriced.
I run a small coffee shop and sell lovely quality Italian coffee at half the price of these multiglobal companies. Costa who have dozens of shops where I live have just decided to install machines in tesco and scotmid across the road from my shop because obviously they haven't put enough family run coffee shops out of business. Bastardos.
Please support small local businessess, we're not greedy we're just trying to feed our kids.

O, im in ,plus family.

I agree with Want2beSupoermum. My anger is not with the companies. Well, a little bit, for their 'creative accounting, but not too much, because they are not doing anything illegal.
Its partly with the HMRC who have these long costly investigations , which are pointless. Heads of HMRC who are spineless.
But the REAL problem, obviously is our Lax laws, which allow companies to get away with this. Its not right, but its our own fault , for allowing it.

Exactly my thoughts Oblomov, the government like to bitch about tax avoidance (apart from Gary Barlow's cos he's bezzies with the Queen) but seem to be very slow to change the law.

Can't imagine why that is - I wonder if it's got something to do with the fact that 50% of the Conservative's donations come from The City?

MrsReiver - The government like to bitch? Have you read this thread, there's more bitching going on than there is at the annual bitchfest on a rainy day.

The tax regime is the one put in place by the last government, you cannot try to pin this on the current government.

Indeed, but the last government aren't in a position to change things are they? The current one is.

"HRMC have already investigated Starbucks and for whatever reason, took it no further. Thats just not good, no matter how you look at it, is it?"

What about the reason that they found that Starbucks weren't doing anything wrong and that transfer prices were set correctly?

Why is the assumption that the HMRC investigation was inadequate?

Never spend a single penny in any of the chain coffee houses, never will, I like supporting the ethical independents.

Those "ethical independents" will employ accountants whose job it is to minimise tax liability, do you not consider them tax avoiders?

Really, Toombs, have you read their accounts?

Hahaha, most ethical independents don't even make enough money to pay tax. I do my own accounts, very simple-income/outgoings, there is no scope for tax dodging believe me.

I find the assumption that independents are more ethical than multi nationals very odd. Some will be, some won't. Every small business owner I know employs an accountant to minimise their tax liabilities. Some will be within the law, some won't.

Ditto with the assumption that its better to work for an independent. I've always worked in retail, sometimes for multinational and twice for independents. IME the independents payed little regard to equal oportunities legislation, working time directive, employment law etc. Neither did they offer pension schemes or anything above smp and ssp.

I'm sure there are ethical independents but its extremely niave to think in terms of big bad corporations and nice family run shops.

Starbucks are doing nothing illegal and they are a good employer. There are businesses far more deserving of criticism.

Absolutely, English. Independents, for example, might have less rigorous procedures for the proper handling of tips.

I don't assume that they are more ethical, I know they are, we have a lot of "ethical" business in our area, because it is something people here put a lot of value on that being important,

Fairtrade organic beans, and direct supply community support, so beans are bought direct from a specific community, nearly all the independents here have a community they support some are linked up so they have several between them in different countries, school and medical support for the communities.

they pay their staff well above minimum wage, they also out source to local people for food supplies, raw ingredients, small business cakes and snacks, publish food miles,nearly everything is locally produced, no GM, organic features a lot, and air miles for imports are off set with eco projects,

It's been an ongoing process here for years, this area is often held up as an example as to how do ethical business, so it a self fulfilling, as people who like the idea of living in a certain way, move here, and it grows, because of demand, so even if you wanted an unethical cup of coffee, you would have a job to find one,

as for not paying taxes, we leave that to others, personally I love my children having education, and access to health care, I only spend my hard earned cash in places where they put a value on life.

Then you are lucky. Most of the shops wheel I live are independent and pay minimum wage, sell cheap crap and don't give any better service than the chains.

There is an assumption on mn and in the media that small better and thats not necessarily true. There are good and bad both.

Then you are lucky

I think it is more that we are creating our own "luck', it's community driven, basically if you run a business in this area, you won't get very many customers unless you are behaving in an ethical way,

There is a constant reassessment going on as to how we should behave, so that drives the whole ethos forward,

I find it quite strange when I go else where are unaware people are, here it built the fabric our community, because everyone benefits from it, the way of doing things is guarded carefully,

we have a chain of fast food type beach cafe now spread out across the region,, they only use organic beef in their burgers, from a local farmers, organic salad local farmer, recycled brown card board bio degradable boxes,food is amazing, and not expensive.

If you want to run a successful business here you have to meet everyone high standards, you can't pay peanuts, because we are a community, we will know and boycott,

Stop spending your hard earned money in places that don't deserve to be funded, find the place that is worthy, and the rest will catch on.

All for the Greater Good is it?

Of course you are lucky, it sounds great. I live in an area with very high unemployment, average wage is £14k, higher then average people on social housing relying on benefits. In the Bbc survey done last year my area was highlighted as the areamost likely to be negatively affected by government cuts.

The idea of people here caring about organic burgers and ethical coffee is laughable. Many people are happy to be able to buy cheap grocerys from Tesco and Asda. The 2500+ people employed by the supermarkets locally don't all feel that they should be working for ethical independents. They are glad to have stable jobs with stable companies who give them uniform, sharesave, pensions, paid sick, holiday allowance and the very valuable 20% discount on their shopping.

A small Tesco is due to open in my village and bring 200 jobs. Thats what people here care about.

the reason this area is like this,

is because we have a real problem with unemployment, rural areas do not have any government money thrown at them, no real industry here, just if you are lucky with the weather, a summer holiday one, you can imagine that this summer was fun, we don't even have fishing anymore,

the organic burgers are cheaper than macdonalds(we don't have any of those chains),

The idea of people here caring about organic burgers and ethical coffee is laughable

and that exactly why it won't change, it took a lot for our community, to make the leap, very rural traditional attitudes,

but when you can make the finances feed back into local hands, it makes the changes for you, instead of a local farmer having to give away their hard work to supermarkets, it stays local, I get high quality local meat cheaper than you can buy it in asda when it's on offer, because I join in with co op schemes, the producers(farmers still get a higher price for their meat because they get all of it), they can risk producing more because they know the customer is there,

serious rural poverty goes unnoticed and we don't have any infrastructure in place, no buses, so if you are at the bottom you are stuffed, no where to go, no way of getting there,

we had to make it work for us, because the situation was/is so bad,

Thousands of communities around the world are trying to copy our blue print, because it works so well to bring a community out of extreme poverty,and keep it out, it becoming a global thing, we constantly have visitors from town,cities, villages all over who come to investigate how we are doing it,

get yourselves organised, it takes work, but it is worth it.

Sounds great, Quote. Where is it? Do you have a website, or anything like that?

I would love to think it could work but I fear that in my area we are way past that.

Our area was way past that, we are still fighting, we still have a massive lack of jobs, and such,

people don't realise that rural areas have mass unemployment, we have generations of the same families which are on life time benefits, with no way off, so we have to create jobs,

farms use to employ a work force, get by on only a few part timers, so you have to put those farms back into profit, so they can pay living wages, and produce more

to do that you have to get it benefit everyone, once it does then you have a situation where people don't want to rely on nameless distant companies that bring nothing to the table.

this is only a tiny bit of it, but it will start you off

Once you get going, and a few people get on bandwagon you will be amazed at how fast it explodes, because it instantly works for the people who need it most, it quickly becomes unacceptable not to do the local thing,

the first pig co op I was in, we had three pigs, with one farmer, we now have 28 rare breeds with 12 different farmers, and there are many other pig co ops going, same with lamb and beef,

One of our specialities is building affordable housing, and rentals from almost all local materials, we do this because it is the only way forward that is sustainable, creates local jobs and skills training.

I don't need to boycott them as I would never buy one of their overpriced coffees (nor from any of the other clone coffee shops). How can a small cup of coffee cost fucking £2.60 or whatever insane price they charge!? They must make a whopping profit. Pay some tax or fuck off!