... ask MNers to boycott Starbucks?

[legoballoon]

Personally, I won't be spending any money there again.

When I read the 'we pay our fair share of tax' statement, I almost choked on my (home made) hot chocolate. It's one law for the rich, another for us now is it?!

I think we should support small, UK-based independent coffee shops. Let's support businesses that generate wealth that is shared by local people.

But they are deliberately manipulating things even if they are within the law. That's my opinion from what I've read. Which isn't that much I must admit.

Lots of people have ideas about what is right or not, from educating girls to gun ownership. What we don't do is listen to them. We have law, it doesn't matter what you believe - you obey the law, girls will be educated in this country whether you like it or not. Starbuck have also obeyed the law, you may not think it right but it does not make you right. I shudder to think how many people would have been strung up under lamposts if we were allowed to place our beliefs over the law.

Its perfectly reasonable if people find the way Starbucks handle their affairs in a way that they find distasteful to go elsewhere for their daily coffee toombs.

Because that's what people are talking about. I have yet to hear talk of a lunch mob.

Lynch mob! Or maybe lunch mob is more appropriate.

You do keep repeating yourself regarding this but I'm quite sure people are aware they are acting within the remit of the law.

It's become quite the thing to expose the tax affairs of celebrities or companies and I'm sure we are all aware it's rife.

Toombs - you are wrong. In a democracy it does actually matter what people think. Laws, policies and regulations change all the time. The laws, rules and regulations on corporate tax avoidance need to change as well.

I won't boycott. Starbucks are the only reliable providers of decaf coffee. Everywhere else, you risk staring at the ceiling all night.

They're hugely successful because they provide what many, many people want from a coffee shop.

I won't boycott because I work for them

And if everyone else boycotts I won't have a job anymore

I don't care what people do, if you find something distasteful by all means stop doing it. What though if the thing you find distasteful is quite normal and legal, are you entitled to force your views on the reluctant? Shall we make all women wear a burkha because a minority want it? Shall we say that lawful behaviour is in our view distasteful and therefore take action against it? Where does it end, when will a protest against something we find distasteful turn into something else?

We have laws, this one may be flawed but whilst it is extant it is the supreme authority, it has been obeyed by Starbucks, they have done nothing wrong.

They won't & you will. Ultimately it's a storm in a coffee cup innit.

Timothy Tumblesprings take your skills to Costa! They pay better and will be picking up new customers as we speak.

Toombs - they have (presumably) done nothing illegal. That is not the same as doing nothing wrong.

Illgetmycoat there is no way I could ever go to work for Costa, a chain of coffee shops owned and operated by a brewery?

And they are, like, the AntiChrist or something.

I'm boycotting HMRC

There is a difference between following the letter or spirit of a law.

People with clever lawyers get off lots of things.

Your comparisons with respect are a little hysterical. Hanging from lamp posts, everyone in burkas!

Ultimately of course companies are going to try and pay as little tax as possible to appease shareholders. However of the details come out and people feel they have gone too far, there will be a bit of adverse public opinion. Not everyone will agree if course.

I'm beginning to wonder if you are their tax as advise toombs?

Edam, I'm sure you and I have differences about what is right or wrong. It matters not that I think that FGM is right (for example), in this country it is illegal. You may have any opinion you like but you cannot say that you are right.

I am gobsmacked by the number of people who think that because the Law says it is ok, we shouldn't apply our moral judgement.

Anyone heard of Hillsborough for goodness sake? The Law is often wrong. If you think that the Law is always right and dictates morality, you're bonkers. It's a blunt instrument manipulated by those who can afford and know how to use it.

PickledFanjoCat, People don't "get off", they are not liable. You can't be done for speeding on a motorway at 70 MPH. The argument being advanced is that you should be able to be done, that 70 MPH is too fast and that all right minded people should agree. No offence has been committed.

The tax system is complicated, but it's not because HMRC are evil. It's partly because governments try to do clever things with it to help people out: tax breaks for films to help the movie industry, taper relief on capital gains tax to encourage long-term investment, mortgage tax relief, no VAT on children's clothes, that sort of thing) and partly because tax lawyers make millions by ferreting out loopholes, then the government closes the loophole, but in closing it creates another loophole, and the dance goes on.

Toombs - I'm objecting to the claim that Starbucks Is Right. 'Legal' is not the same as 'right' and the law is very far from fixed.

You can't destroy my argument by saying 'you aren't right'. I never claimed to be right. I objected to the claim that because Starbucks are operating within the law, everything is fine and dandy and there's nothing to discuss.

YY caladria.

Illgetmycoat. To what should we apply our moral judgement? If I have some mad belief am I entitled to use my moral judgement to enforce it, shall I force FGM on my daughters because I am right? Should my moral judgement overrule the law?

My uncle got pissed up and drove his car.

The solicitor got him off on a small error made when booking him in.

He was pissed. He drove his car. He got off. It's technically illegal.

That's getting off toombs.

Toombs, your arguments are getting ever more ridiculous and I can't even bother answering anymore!

edam, being right is subjective. It's why we have laws. No ones "right" overrides it however much you think it is wrong.

Oo I think shooting men is ok, I'll just pop and grab my Uzi.