friends: favours and paid favours

[TheRealAmyFarrahFowler]

I really don't know if IABU. DP thinks I am.
DP started a new job 3 weeks ago in another town about 20 miles away. He can get there by public transport but obviously at a cost.
He has arranged instead to get a lift from our good friend who works very close to DP's workplace. This is brilliant - saves time and money.
DP offered to pay towards petrol and friend said "Oh we'll sort something out". DP said to friend again this week that he wants to give him something towards petrol and friend said "Well me and wife talked about it and we think £5 a day would be about right. I reckon petrol costs me about £10/day".
Fair enough you might think.

But - they have a 3 year old DD who for the last 2 1/2 years I have regularly collected from nursery for them (nursery is at end of our street) and then kept for an hour or 2 until they collect her. Not often, but about 5 or 6 times a month. I really don't mind doing this as they are our friends and I am happy to do them a favour. But I have, on occasion, put myself out - cancelled plans, finished work early - when they have asked me at short notice. Again, I've never minded.
But now I feel they are taking the piss a bit by not acknowledging the friendly favours we have done for them. I think they should be asking for a token amount - maybe £2 or £3 a day from my DP. Friend is going there anyway. DP could get there by bus for £6.
DP says the two are not related and he's happy to pay.

To be honest I am a wimp and won't do/say anything anyway but it might help me to stop feeling so annoyed with our friends if you confirm that I am indeed BU.

I think the issue here is not the sharing the costs of the commute, which is exactly as it should be ( whether you believe the cost is actually £10 a day or not is another matter), but the non reciprocation of childcare favours. Have try never ever looked after your kids?

If I was you, next time she asked you at short notice to pick up her child, causing you to cancel things or finish work early, just be honest and say you can't.

You've helped these people A LOT. They may not owe you money or a free ride legally, but equally everyone knows if relationships aren't mutually beneficial they're not worth it.

I still reckon it's too late to tackle the car thing - but I would ask for childcare in return, and definitely babysitting in return too. If you don't get, don't keep doing it. You'll just feel ripped off (you will be ripped off) otherwise and presumably you want to keep the friendship.

tbh i would stick to public transport.

I have to drive for work one day a week, a 40 mile round trip to the next town. I get paid 45p a mile, so £18. This covers petrol and wear & tear, MOT, insurance, road tax. If I take a passenger I get an extra 5p extra a mile, or £2 a trip. I'd try offering £4 as a compromise. It's more convenient for your DH to get a lift, and sometimes I know I'd rather not have a passenger

The car thing unfortunately is separate, but I would say from mow on don't put yourself out AT ALL for them (friend obviously isn't putting himself out for your DH) and maybe ask for some reciprocity now and then. Otherwise you risk souring the relationship unnecessarily.

If your dh offered less than £5 a day, what do you think might happen? Would the guy be likely to say, 'nah, bog off back on the bus'?

We don't have children so reciprocal childcare is not an option. And I don't mind helping out with their DD. Because it's not often (and she's lovely) it's really never been a problem and I would never ask for payment. I think I know that these are not related - I think the fact that as they have never really had an opportunity to thank/appreciate us for the childcare help we give, I'm disappointed that they didn't say "Oh you've helped us out so many times over the last few years, of course we'll help you out". But I'll get over it.

Thank you MyNeighbourIsHorrid - that makes me more comfortable with the amount.
Justbogoffnow - my DP wouldn't. Ever. He's more of a wimp than me. But I think friend would probably be a bit mortified, reduce the rate and their car share would be uncomfortable.

You're a better person than I am

Do they seriously not show their appreciation in any way for you picking their DD up from nursery? I just assumed you did it because you were picking your own kids up from there!! No bottle of wine, chocolates etc?

trixymalixy - No. But her nursery is literally 10 steps from my house. And if I can't do I say I can't. I'm not a doormat. Friend goes to London quite often for work and doesn't get back here before nursery closes, and her DH works a 20 mile commute away. So I pick their DD up at 4:30-5 and he comes and collects her about 7. They don't have any family close by. When I can't help, he has to finish work early and then make up the time.

I think your friends should have asked for less money. £5 does seem a lot. I am not sure there is much you can do other than yellowdinosaurs suggestion of saying can you swap any upcoming babysitting for a car lift. It wouldn't be confrontational and would, perhaps, make them think a little.

You sound like an amazing friend. I'm actually quite gobsmacked that in 2 1/2 years they have never once bought you flowers/wine/chocs.

I have friends who sometimes pick kids up/babysit, but we also reciprocate AND buy wine/chocs etC for each other.

So on that basis YANBU at all!i would start not being quite so available...

Is he putting gold petrol in the car?

I guess it's a reasonable amount for petrol once you take into consideration insurance, road tax, servicing costs that would have to be paid on your own car, plus it's till cheaper and more convenient than the bus.

The nursery issue is separate though, and TBH it sounds as though they've been taking advantage of you here. I think you need to stop changing your own plans and finishing work early at the drop of a hat- it's not reasonable to expect you to to that. If there's a dire emergency then of course you'd help if you could; if you've had lots of notice and it's no trouble you can pick up the DD. But why the heck should you be leaving work early to sort out their childcare problems?

Thanks trixymalixy - although to be fair the pas two xmsaes they have bought us a nice gift from their DD. But then - she does eat all my babybels! I will continue to be available when I can but I certainly won't be bending over backwards putting myself out at short notice any more. (well I probably will cause I'm soft as shit sometimes - makes up for the hard bitch I am at other times. Karma baby)

Cross-post- so it sounds as though they are actually using you as a regular child care arrangement then , without ever acknowledging how much of a favour you are doing them. That is taking the piss.

I don't think you can raise the past childcare to ask for a petrol money reduction without seeming petty. Maybe YellowDinosaur's suggestion is the way forward- next time they ask for childcare help, offer to trade for a lift. Doesn't seem as if they even think you're helping them out here, that it's somehow a privilege for you to care for their child.

Inertia - I can finish early fairly easily and I work very close to home so I've never really inconveienced myself too badly. An example is last night - had arranged to meet friends in town at 7. Friend texted yest afternoon to ask could I collect her DD - I could and did. Just told friends I'd be a bit late. And got ready with the help of a 3yo.

Well- I'd consider that an inconvenience (with 2 DC , a DH who works away a lot and no local family babysitters, nights out are precious and rare!)- plus your friend must have known her work plans beforehand.

They are treating you like part of their family when it suits them - i.e. for childcare- but managing the lifts/petrol situation as a business transaction. Just seems unfair that they are having it both ways.

I would pay the fiver per day but wouldn't be doing any more childcare.

They are takers.

Wow - £5 per day? I find that a bit greedy. I thought you were going to say £10 a week. Or a couple of £ a day.

I've been sitting nodding at all the posts saying you're doing them a BIG favour by childminding.

OP - you keep on saying that looking after DD isn't an inconvenience. As if to say that cancels the give and take side of the lift for your DH.

Well surely the fact that this guy is going to be doing the same journey weather your DH is in the car or not means that too is not an inconvenience either? (If your DH is late/other bloke is late/whatever, your DH can get a bus, so it's not that heavy a responsibility for him)

And yet you're willing to pay. ANd most people reading this would be willing to pay. I'd bet most people reading this would have wanted to give you some token of appreciation re: the child care you do for them by now too.

Personally i wouldn't want to have any confrontation about it either. Let DH pay, but from now on say no to the unpaid, unappreciated childminding. You'll fester otherwise.

If they want their rightful dues for the driving but are unwilling to reciprocate when it comes to childminding - just take a step back, don't do it for them any more, and try to forget about it.

Some people are not good at give and take, best not to expect it.

It's perfectly plausible that the petrol could cost £10 per day. Op has said its a large people carrier, stop start commuter traffic could easily knock economy down to 25mpg and assuming a petrol cost of £1.36ish would make a 40 mile trip £10 or so.

YANBU at all!!!
Childcare is a huge favour, not just the money she saves, but knowing that her daughter is happy with a friend not uncomfortable with someone she hardly knows (ad hoc irregular babysitter).
If I were her, I would be falling over myself trying to pay back this massive favour, and would refuse any petrol money. It's not like it is costing them a penny extra or any inconvenience to give your husband a lift.
I am astonished that people think caring for a 3 year old for 1 to 2 hours is comparable to giving an adult a lift. Three year olds are trouble, and they owe you years of favours. I hesitate to ask someone to pick up and care for my 10 year old, who is entirely self sufficient, because it is still a big favour.

I'm sure it is plausible that the journey could be costing the owner of the car £10 per day. It could cost even more if he were driving something really big or flash!

That's not the OPs DHs fault though is it? It should be a token towards petrol money surely?

YABU.

I think your DH is getting a good deal. He saves £20 a month, doesn't have the inconvenience of public transport, presumably saves lots of travel time, and he's dropped at the door of his work and home.

You help out with their DD occasionally, entirely your choice, and you've said they buy you a really nice Christmas present from their DD.

I certainly wouldn't advise your DH to start haggling with his mate for the sake of saving a pound or two per day.

And if you don't want to help out with their DD or it's not convenient for you, then you simply don't put yourself out for them.

And anyway, your DH is happy with the travel arrangements and costs, so there isn't really a problem.