friends: favours and paid favours

[TheRealAmyFarrahFowler]

I really don't know if IABU. DP thinks I am.
DP started a new job 3 weeks ago in another town about 20 miles away. He can get there by public transport but obviously at a cost.
He has arranged instead to get a lift from our good friend who works very close to DP's workplace. This is brilliant - saves time and money.
DP offered to pay towards petrol and friend said "Oh we'll sort something out". DP said to friend again this week that he wants to give him something towards petrol and friend said "Well me and wife talked about it and we think £5 a day would be about right. I reckon petrol costs me about £10/day".
Fair enough you might think.
But - they have a 3 year old DD who for the last 2 1/2 years I have regularly collected from nursery for them (nursery is at end of our street) and then kept for an hour or 2 until they collect her. Not often, but about 5 or 6 times a month. I really don't mind doing this as they are our friends and I am happy to do them a favour. But I have, on occasion, put myself out - cancelled plans, finished work early - when they have asked me at short notice. Again, I've never minded.
But now I feel they are taking the piss a bit by not acknowledging the friendly favours we have done for them. I think they should be asking for a token amount - maybe £2 or £3 a day from my DP. Friend is going there anyway. DP could get there by bus for £6.
DP says the two are not related and he's happy to pay.
To be honest I am a wimp and won't do/say anything anyway but it might help me to stop feeling so annoyed with our friends if you confirm that I am indeed BU.

[InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers]

No, I completely agree. But they obviously aren't taking the many hours of childcare into account, so neither should the OP. In which case the favours aer extremely one sided and they're taking the p. If it were me I'd be glad to be able to repay some of the OP;s generosity over the years (although, interestingly they could be taking the line that it is the OP they owe, and her DH they are giving lifts to and the two are not linked :o)

[cumfy]

Surprised that so many are saying these are separate issues. They are not.

Simply because petrol is on the face of it easier to cost than childcare does not mean they can't be equated.

eg OP has very conservatively, contributed 100-150 hours childcare over 2+ years.
At £10/hour that is £1000-1500.

It is a testament to OP's good nature that she has done all this without any thought of payment.
Any decent person would take this all very much into consideration when an issue of lifts arise, and not attempt to economically exploit the situation.

[Laquitar]

Thanks Infinity. Sorry i 've missed that.

[shesariver]

The real issue is the amount of free childcare you are doing, did this bother you before? Because now it sounds like it does, and this will niggle away at you. You say you are "freinds" and doing favours for "friends" but how good friends are they really, as they sound as if they take you for granted. was the question of money ever brought up when arranging this? Regardless of what you say you are being inconvenienced.

3 hours a day 6 times a month, thats 18 hours? My DH is a childminder and charges £3.50 an hour so as an example thats £63 a month....and thats if they could get a cm to do that because it would be taking up a space, no doubt they would charge more!

[agedknees]

It is 2 separate issues.

Issue 1, the car lift. YABU. Take it as someone who used to commute - taxi, bus, train, bus to work a lift to the door and back is worth it's weight in gold.

Issue 2, the childcare. Stop being so accessible. Don't change your plans to suit them.

They do sound a little bit like takers.

You sound lovely for doing all that free childcare.

[InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers]

Laq - the OP doens't have children

[MissKeithLemon]

YANBU - your friends sound all take and no give.

I'd be telling them that I'm doing overtime to compensate for the cost of dh's new commute next time they asked me for a childcare favour tbh

[Laquitar]

I think it is fair to pay half for the petrol.

Childcare- can you ask them for a babysiiting so you and dh have a night out or a babysitting and sleepover when you have to go to a wedding or something. Do you also feed her child, does she contribute to food?

[Paiviaso]

I think your DP should pay the £5, partially because he was the one that brought it up, and also because I assume his commute will be faster and slightly cheaper if he goes with this friend, even with the £5 charge. This is a don't cut off your nose to spite your face situation.

YANBU to feel annoyed about the free childcare you provide though - if it is going to eat away at you I would simply stop saying you can do it.

[hermioneweasley]

Agree with people who say they are separate issues. I can believe a people carrier doing 40 miles a day would use 10 quid fuel. I would be asking for reciprocal childcare favors.

[InfinityWelcomesCarefulDrivers]

I suppose you could separate the two out. So your dh paying half the petrol (petrol only) and door to door treatment seems fair.
But the fact they seem to take you for granted re childcare is not fair at all. They are getting a very convenient and pleasant solution and 5 or 6 times a month is a lot!

[MsKayGee]

YABU.

I think your DH is getting a good deal. He saves £20 a month, doesn't have the inconvenience of public transport, presumably saves lots of travel time, and he's dropped at the door of his work and home.

You help out with their DD occasionally, entirely your choice, and you've said they buy you a really nice Christmas present from their DD.

I certainly wouldn't advise your DH to start haggling with his mate for the sake of saving a pound or two per day.

And if you don't want to help out with their DD or it's not convenient for you, then you simply don't put yourself out for them.

And anyway, your DH is happy with the travel arrangements and costs, so there isn't really a problem.

[fluffyraggies]

I'm sure it is plausible that the journey could be costing the owner of the car £10 per day. It could cost even more if he were driving something really big or flash!

That's not the OPs DHs fault though is it? It should be a token towards petrol money surely?

[claraschu]

YANBU at all!!!
Childcare is a huge favour, not just the money she saves, but knowing that her daughter is happy with a friend not uncomfortable with someone she hardly knows (ad hoc irregular babysitter).
If I were her, I would be falling over myself trying to pay back this massive favour, and would refuse any petrol money. It's not like it is costing them a penny extra or any inconvenience to give your husband a lift.
I am astonished that people think caring for a 3 year old for 1 to 2 hours is comparable to giving an adult a lift. Three year olds are trouble, and they owe you years of favours. I hesitate to ask someone to pick up and care for my 10 year old, who is entirely self sufficient, because it is still a big favour.

[DesperatelySeekingPomBears]

It's perfectly plausible that the petrol could cost £10 per day. Op has said its a large people carrier, stop start commuter traffic could easily knock economy down to 25mpg and assuming a petrol cost of £1.36ish would make a 40 mile trip £10 or so.

[fluffyraggies]

Wow - £5 per day? I find that a bit greedy. I thought you were going to say £10 a week. Or a couple of £ a day.

I've been sitting nodding at all the posts saying you're doing them a BIG favour by childminding.

OP - you keep on saying that looking after DD isn't an inconvenience. As if to say that cancels the give and take side of the lift for your DH.

Well surely the fact that this guy is going to be doing the same journey weather your DH is in the car or not means that too is not an inconvenience either? (If your DH is late/other bloke is late/whatever, your DH can get a bus, so it's not that heavy a responsibility for him)

And yet you're willing to pay. ANd most people reading this would be willing to pay. I'd bet most people reading this would have wanted to give you some token of appreciation re: the child care you do for them by now too.

Personally i wouldn't want to have any confrontation about it either. Let DH pay, but from now on say no to the unpaid, unappreciated childminding. You'll fester otherwise.

If they want their rightful dues for the driving but are unwilling to reciprocate when it comes to childminding - just take a step back, don't do it for them any more, and try to forget about it.

Some people are not good at give and take, best not to expect it.

[ENormaSnob]

I would pay the fiver per day but wouldn't be doing any more childcare.

They are takers.

[Inertia]

Well- I'd consider that an inconvenience (with 2 DC , a DH who works away a lot and no local family babysitters, nights out are precious and rare!)- plus your friend must have known her work plans beforehand.

They are treating you like part of their family when it suits them - i.e. for childcare- but managing the lifts/petrol situation as a business transaction. Just seems unfair that they are having it both ways.

[TheRealAmyFarrahFowler]

Inertia - I can finish early fairly easily and I work very close to home so I've never really inconveienced myself too badly. An example is last night - had arranged to meet friends in town at 7. Friend texted yest afternoon to ask could I collect her DD - I could and did. Just told friends I'd be a bit late. And got ready with the help of a 3yo.

[Inertia]

Cross-post- so it sounds as though they are actually using you as a regular child care arrangement then , without ever acknowledging how much of a favour you are doing them. That is taking the piss.

I don't think you can raise the past childcare to ask for a petrol money reduction without seeming petty. Maybe YellowDinosaur's suggestion is the way forward- next time they ask for childcare help, offer to trade for a lift. Doesn't seem as if they even think you're helping them out here, that it's somehow a privilege for you to care for their child.

[TheRealAmyFarrahFowler]

Thanks trixymalixy - although to be fair the pas two xmsaes they have bought us a nice gift from their DD. But then - she does eat all my babybels! I will continue to be available when I can but I certainly won't be bending over backwards putting myself out at short notice any more. (well I probably will cause I'm soft as shit sometimes - makes up for the hard bitch I am at other times. Karma baby)

[Inertia]

Is he putting gold petrol in the car?

I guess it's a reasonable amount for petrol once you take into consideration insurance, road tax, servicing costs that would have to be paid on your own car, plus it's till cheaper and more convenient than the bus.

The nursery issue is separate though, and TBH it sounds as though they've been taking advantage of you here. I think you need to stop changing your own plans and finishing work early at the drop of a hat- it's not reasonable to expect you to to that. If there's a dire emergency then of course you'd help if you could; if you've had lots of notice and it's no trouble you can pick up the DD. But why the heck should you be leaving work early to sort out their childcare problems?

[trixymalixy]

You sound like an amazing friend. I'm actually quite gobsmacked that in 2 1/2 years they have never once bought you flowers/wine/chocs.

I have friends who sometimes pick kids up/babysit, but we also reciprocate AND buy wine/chocs etC for each other.

So on that basis YANBU at all!i would start not being quite so available...

[SomeoneThatYouUsedToKnow]

I think your friends should have asked for less money. £5 does seem a lot. I am not sure there is much you can do other than yellowdinosaurs suggestion of saying can you swap any upcoming babysitting for a car lift. It wouldn't be confrontational and would, perhaps, make them think a little.

[TheRealAmyFarrahFowler]

trixymalixy - No. But her nursery is literally 10 steps from my house. And if I can't do I say I can't. I'm not a doormat. Friend goes to London quite often for work and doesn't get back here before nursery closes, and her DH works a 20 mile commute away. So I pick their DD up at 4:30-5 and he comes and collects her about 7. They don't have any family close by. When I can't help, he has to finish work early and then make up the time.