To loathe the gradual creep of "gotten " as accepted English

[BonnyDay]

In this country ?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

A good bloke. Probably the last Oxford don to do anything innovative.

[gypsyfloss]

I love reading David Crystal's writing on the English language; he covers so much of this. I too use gotten and also bring/take interchangeably . I'm Irish and according to Crystal it is Hiberno-English usage.

[NellyJob]

this has gone well off-topic.....any idea why there is a Lollard St and a Wycliffe St around Kennington, south London?

[NellyJob]

oooh David Crystal is great gypsyfloss, and Hiberno-English is fascinating too...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Well, London is fairly Lollard-y. I don't know about Kennington specifically but Anne Hudson's The Premature Reformation might well say.

I don't know if this is off-topic - I suspect that the beginnings of serious/religious writing in English in that period actually have a huge amount to do both with what is seen as 'correct' English grammar, and with the fact we have a prescriptive grammar at all.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Ah, got it. Oldcastle (the knight who was at the centre of one of the Lollard would-be rebellions) was brought before the king at the king's palace in Kennington, and the Lollard tracts associated with him were examined there.

[dementedma]

So in the examples given, are people using have gotten as present perfect?
It sounds so ugly - sorry. I can't see the difference between have got and have gotten enough for there to be a need to use it

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

But you'd use 'forgotten' not 'forgot'?

Isn't the a passive/active thing going on (forgive me, my grammar is shite)? 'He has been forgotten'/ 'I forgot him'. You wouldn't say 'He has been forgot', I think?

[TheBigJessie]

I used to avoid split infinitives, until I found out that it originated with Latin. Then I began to confidently write them whenever they sounded pleasing to my ear. If there's an afterlife and they quibble over my decision, I will say "scribere split infinitives amo so there". That'll hurt them worse than the split infinitives, and grant them a new sense of perspective.

Well, that's what this mouse plans, but we all know what Robert Burns used to say about mice and their ability to carry out tasks.

[THETrills]

Love the multiple versions of the Bible quote LRD.

(that's not a proper sentence, do you mind?)

[THETrills]

NellyJob I wouldn't jump on you, I'd give you this link

[NellyJob]

obviously I knew that alot was wrong, that is why I corrected myself, duh.

[THETrills]

Did you click the link? It's supposed to be funny. I read the cartoon once, liked it, and now like to share it at any opportunity :)

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I like the alot.

[NellyJob]

actually it made me smile, alot, so thanks!!
Just feeling a bit paranoid since some fucker defaced my proofreading ads over a disputed comma!

[PicklesThePottyMouthedParrot]

It scares me. You all scare me.

[THETrills]

OK, good, I just wanted to share the alot love :)

[NeedToSleepZZZ]

Oooh nelly, grammar wars? Who knew the power of punctuation?

Hope you're okay!

[NellyJob]

recovering thanks! It is more than just a bit annoying having LOL LOL LOL scribbled over your ads!

[NotMostPeople]

I'm not qualified to be a pedant as I have to admit I don't know or understand all the rules. I don't like 'gotten', but I really hate 'get' when use by someone ordering something ie. 'can I get a skinny latte?'

[TheBigJessie]

I sometimes dream about sad alots, ever since I read that comic a few months back.

[ImSlimShadyImTheRealSlimShady]

nancy where is, "My bad" in Hamlet?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Oh, yes, please, I want the reference for 'my bad' in Hamlet!

I don't care for 'can I get' and look forward to the day I have small children, so it will be socially acceptable to hiss loudly 'you mean "may I have"!'

[HappyOrchid]

I like to use discluded as a less harsh punishment than excluded.

Excluded sounds so final, whereas discluded means you are not included for a short time.

DD had us in fits of laughter yesterday. She smelled the Tea Tree oil I was putting in her bath and exclaimed 'Oh my giddy arms, that's strong'