To loathe the gradual creep of "gotten " as accepted English

[BonnyDay]

In this country ?

Actually, my example is wrong. I don't think that "down" should be there.

FB has exposed 50% of the people I know as grammar half-wits - it's not grammar, it's dialect, there is no academy to lay down rules in English as in France; it is a truly international language with many different versions whose differences are to be celebrated not condemned.

NellyJob indeed, the "Standard English" grammar and word usage would be (mostly) horrified by other aspects of xenophobia but when it's about the language they seem to think it's fine to belittle other dialects. Never understand it, especially when the meaning is completely clear, and often clearer.

What annoys me is the way 'bring' is used instead of 'take', TBF I've only heard it in movies/tv not in real life.

the bring/take thing is more commonly used in Ireland

"...indeed, the "Standard English" grammar and word usage would be (mostly) horrified by other aspects of xenophobia but when it's about the language they seem to think it's fine to belittle other dialects. Never understand it, especially when the meaning is completely clear, and often clearer."

::applause::

I like "gotten". What's not to like? Are we supposed to disapprove of a word just because Americans use it?

squeakytoy: "the bring/take thing is more commonly used in Ireland"

Yes, I have an Irish friend who always says "bring" where we would say "take", e.g. "I brought my daughter to school". It does sound odd to English ears - there's a bit in the famous Father Ted "my lovely horse" song where it says something like "bring you to the horse dentist". Somehow that makes it even funnier.

hackmum: "Are we supposed to disapprove of a word just because Americans use it?"

No, of course not. We're supposed to disapprove of EVERYTHING just because it's American. After all, the Americans are ruthless in their insistance that the rest of the world watch their movies, eat their fast food, use their language or buy their fashions.

FB has exposed 50% of the people I know as grammar half-wits.

But Facebollocks was designed entirely with morons in mind, so that shouldn't be a huge surprise!

'my bad'

is also from Elizabethan times. It's in Hamlet....I think

nellyjob it cannot be dialect all the time. I have a similar problem, and I was born in my area and so were they. Dialect means we might say Oi've. It does not compel them or me to write nonsense.

Oh, I hate it too! It dropped out of standard UK English pronunciation, so is an American affectuation.

A lot of the time its not even used correctly ie begot should be used, not gotten which is surely a past participle.

English isn't standardised like a lot of languages, where there is an emphasis on teaching grammar.

That said, as a Dutch speaker, id quite welcome a return to old English. Lets bring back yclept and yclad and add en to plural endings instead of s while were at it I say!

how can it be an 'Americanism' if it's derivation is Old English

Add to list of irritating English dialects is the term, 'where's that to?' meaning where is that? Hate West Country as accepted dialect

gotten is just Americans being quaint and old fashioned

"It dropped out of standard UK English pronunciation"

No it didn't. It is, and long has been, part of Standard Scottish English. The last time I looked, Scotland was still part of the UK.

I think it's fair enough to say that it fell out of use a long time ago in (some parts of) England and it's started to come back in via an American influence. But that isn't the case in every part of the country.

I'm still confused about faucet. Isn't it a perfectly good term? Slightly posh, maybe?

TheBigJessie It's the only term in the US pretty much though, so whilst it still exists in the UK in some dialects anyone who doesn't know it in the UK thinks it's an americanism. There's nothing wrong with it, everyone would understand what you meant.

I always hear a rather slightly posh woman calling a plumber.

The last time I looked, Scotland is still part of the UK

You mean, "Scotland is not outwith the UK", surely? ;)

I know it's old English, but that's not why it's creeping back in is it?

So YANBU.

I hate 'gotten'. Hate it.

I also hate 'snuck' (IT'S 'SNEAKED' YOU FOOLS) and 'dove' (IT'S 'DIVED' YOU IDIOTS).

It's coming back in because it fills a void in Southern British English or whatever. Like schadenfreude.

Reminds me of Gervais Phinn's anecdote of a pedantic teacher at a Yorkshire Dales school trying to correct her class's English.
She wrote a sentence on the board and asked the class to tell her what was wrong with it. A child helpfully obliged with:

"Tha's gone and putten 'putten' when tha should have putten 'put'!"

FrozenFlowers got there before me - "gotten" never fell out of use in parts of Scotland. My dad's also from a part of the country where they say things like "I was sat over there" and "I seen you." It doesn't make him an imbecile.