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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

The grand national is cruel to horses

999 replies

McHappyPants2012 · 12/04/2012 15:20

Alot of the horses will be injured and whipped into going faster, it's also a long race course.

I can't believe people would bet on this event

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 12/04/2012 19:30

Free range doesn't mean totally cruelty free. I think that all we can do is remove what we can from our lives, in terms of explotation of others and animal mistreatment.

There is no reason as to why the race cannot be made more humane. There have been improvements in them, the last in 2009.

This race and the other conected events brings in revenue for Liverpool and the North West that we cannot do without.

I also question as to why the winner of a race is not put on hold, to allow for the check of over use of the whip, as last years winning jockey was fined for. Surely that isn't fair to the other jockeys, if they are abidding by the rules?

Butkin · 12/04/2012 19:30

Flightty as mentioned above last year's race did cause a change in the whip regulations which are now stricter with bigger penalties.

It is a shame that the thread is going this way when we could be celebrating Big Buck's - winner of his (all time record) 17th race in a row at Aintree today - and probably the greatest staying hurdler of all time. He is a joy to behold and is absolutely loved by not only his connections but by all the racing public.

Racing is not only about betting. Many people enjoy it without having a punt and for many owners it is not only about money - hundreds of horses run every week in point to points for less than 100 pounds.

Thoroughbreds are bred to race and mostly they love it. If they didn't want to race they wouldn't (some do refuse to start) and no 9 stone jockey is going to persuade them otherwise.

catgirl1976 · 12/04/2012 19:32

Someone had half a mil on him today butkin - they'll be happy :)

amazing horse

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 19:40

Butkin, it was fantastic to see Big Bucks wasn't it! What a horse!

I am chomping at the bit (Wink) for the Flat season to really get going. DH has been told we are undertaking a Frankel pilgrimage this year - where he goes, we go! I had my heart in my mouth when they announced this morning that he had picked up a minor injury when working this morning.

With regards to the use of the whip, last tears's winning jockey was not done for misuse if the whip (where a horse is hit in the wrong place, or the whip leaves a mark), he was done for excessive frequency. As I said up thread, racing whips are incredibly light and flexible so the fact that the horse was unmarked shows he was not "abused".

Someone also made the point about the winner being exhausted and unable to go to the winners enclosure. This was due to heat exhaustion, it was an unseasonably hot day. The fact that the horse was quickly doused with buckets of water (something that the racecourse officials had on stand by before the race even started) and taken back to the stables to recover, rather than paraded is further demonstration that his welfare was paramount.

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 19:43

catgirl, that half a million was in cash too Shock. My boss said, and he's probably right, that the authorities will look very closely at that bet and the people involved as it is not unheard of for crime gangs to launder their money through the betting ring at big meetings.

GrahamTribe · 12/04/2012 19:46

YANBU. norfolkinchance, dog racing is even worse than horseracing in terms of cruelty, abuse and unnecessary deaths.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 19:46

Butkin Thu 12-Apr-12 17:36:38
The winner wasn't really too exhausted last year
__

That's not true at all if you look at the actual commentary and interviews on the day. The man caring for him said he was exhausted and in a bad way and needed oxygen. He was really concerned about the horse.

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 19:51

If you go to the link I posted earlier about Welfare Q&A and scroll down, you'll see a pie chart which shows what happened to horses who left racing in 2006. The figures were pulled together in 2009 to get a true picture of what had happened.

As you can see, just 10% were unaccounted for, so Animal Aid's claim that thousands are killed for meat, etc are blatant lies.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 19:57

Not that anyone looks worried about him or anything, I'm sure he was just fine Hmm

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 20:03

But Flightty, isn't the fact that procedures were in place to treat him so quickly a demonstration that welfare is important? After all, if we didn't care for our horses there would be nothing to race!

BTW, the horse, Ballabriggs, was absolutely fine and runs again on Saturday to try and become the first horse since Red Rum to win back to back Nationals. It will be a highly emotional day of he does as his trainer is Donald McCain, son of Ginger, who trained Red Rum. Sadly Ginger passed away last September.

catgirl1976 · 12/04/2012 20:05

cash!!!?? wow cavemum they will look into that Shock

Flightty · 12/04/2012 20:06

Erm, I think it would have been better not to actually push the horse to the point where treatment was required.

That is the issue here. Not what was done in terms of damage limitation (particularly in terms of press) afterwards.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 20:07

Some reports were clearly played right down....'offered a precuationary whiff of oxygen' I mean ffs it wasn't precautionary.

what a load of bollocks you read in some papers.

TidyDancer · 12/04/2012 20:20

I agree with the OP 100%.

Betting on this 'sport' is endorsement of cruelty.

Original poster
McHappyPants2012 · 12/04/2012 20:26

why not just ban whips.

OP posts:
GrahamTribe · 12/04/2012 20:28

"If you go to the link I posted earlier about Welfare Q&A and scroll down, you'll see a pie chart which shows what happened to horses who left racing in 2006. The figures were pulled together in 2009 to get a true picture of what had happened.

As you can see, just 10% were unaccounted for, so Animal Aid's claim that thousands are killed for meat, etc are blatant lies."

You know that assertion's bollocks, don't you CaveMum? There's no way we should take the word of a self-regulating organisation (the British Horse Racing Authority) which lacks any transparency and actively funds and promotes racing.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 20:30

Yes what is the actual point of the whip?

GrahamTribe · 12/04/2012 20:30

Edit to add, because I don't think I made it very clear above, that CaveMum's "facts" on the number of horses killed came from the self-regulating, horseracing funding and promoting British Horse Racing Authority themselves.

Stinkyminkymoo · 12/04/2012 20:35

I dislike both racing and the GN. I mainly dislike racing as I don't agree with starting horses when they are 2 years old, they are not physically or mentally mature for racing and their joints, limbs and soundness (whether they develop leg problems) are affected for their future life after racing. I mean you wouldn't send your 6yo child to run a marathon would you?

Not all race horses that fail at racing are slaughtered. A large majority are re-trained and re-homed - check out Retraining of Racehorses (www.ror.org.uk), they do excellent work getting ex-racers into a useful and productive life.

The issue arises when those with less scruples than most do not do a good job (if at all) of retraining and the horse ends up in the hands of a novice horse owner. A racehorse is not the same as a normal horse. For example you always see jockeys mount whilst the horse is moving, this can be an issue for its next owner.

Also, thoroughbreds aren't really my thing, I'll stick with good feet and a sound mind with my 2 thanks Wink

catgirl1976 · 12/04/2012 20:35

The whip is used for steering as well - flightty

Ponyofdoom · 12/04/2012 20:35

Grahamtribe why would a horse be killed for meat if it could sold as a riding animal for £1000 or £1500? I have been in the horse world for years and know personally of people who have taken on ex-racehorses as hunters team chasers etc. I would be happy to do so. I also know of several 'retraining of racehorses' organisations. Many people are very happy to rehome ex racehorses. I am not involved in racing but have no reason to doubt the figures quoted by CaveMum. I think you are more likely to be talking b*llocks from my experience.

PeyAm · 12/04/2012 20:41

I can just about understand horse racing on a flat track. Eventing is done one at a time so no panic and herd instinct for the horses.

There's no doubt that before and after these horses for the grand national are pampered (well the ones that are chosen to be worthy, the rest that were bred are sold down and down and possibly slaughtered) but the course itself just sets them up to fail. Herd instinct takes over, there's so little control because they are desperate to keep up with/ahead of the group (natural move to avoid being the chosen prey by a predator). They appear to throw themselves over the jumps and this is the most likely place that they fall and become injured, especially when there are 40 horses right behind you!

It looks so frenzied compared to the other sports. They certainly need less horses on the race and smaller jumps

Flightty · 12/04/2012 20:45

Oh but that would take away the excitement, wouldn't it Hmm

This is what I mean by selfish, that's what a lot of pro GN folk seem to say.

It wouldn't be the same race with safer jumps. The whole point is it's chaotic, dangerous and therefore thrilling, it's all in the risk, in the chase, the frenzy.

That's what they LOVE about it.

No different from a bullfight imo

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 20:45

Most horse riders, competitive and casual, carry a whip and all do so for the same two reasons: to encourage the horse to go forward and as a safety measure. The safety element is very important, as a whip is often necessary to keep a horse straight and prevent it from running into another horse and causing an accident.
Horses are far bigger and stronger thn their riders, so riders often use artificial aids (whips, spurs, etc) to reinforce instructions. Of course spurs are not use in racing,

Jockeys receive training in how to use the whip and jockeys found to be in breach of the rules are sent on training courses to refine their technique.

This is an ordinary riding whip

This is a flat racing whip and This is a NH whip

You can see from the pictures that the racing whips are heavily cushioned in comparison.

Whatmeworry · 12/04/2012 20:46

Another townie vs countrie debate methinks. But then I think keeping dogs in small parcels of suburbia is cruel too....