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Original poster

Omg Stephen Lawrence scum sentence

98 replies

4ForksSake · 04/01/2012 08:41

Just heard that the scumbags that have been convicted will be sentenced as juveniles as they were 16 & 17 when they killed Stephen (regardless of their age now) & the sentences will start at 12 years, although the judge can add to that due to the nature of the crime. Now I'm clearly not knowledgable of the judicial system but this seems unbelievable. Especially as they'll probably only serve half a sentence. Makes your blood boil.

OP posts:
BupcakesandCunting · 04/01/2012 12:26

" If they had committed the offence at the age of say 11 or 12 for example more people would understand the reasoning behind sentencing them as juveniles."

Exactly that. I do think that juveniles should be classed as 15 and under. At 16, you are legally old enough to parent a child. Therefore, you are old enough to understand that knifing someone to death equals life in jail.

IndieSkies · 04/01/2012 12:29

this is quite helpful

I am satisfied that the sentences they have been given are the MINIMUM they will get.

FlangelinaBallerina · 04/01/2012 12:50

The thing with the juvenile/adult distinction is that it has to exist, however much people hate it. Unfortunately, even really young people occasionally do really horrendous shit. Some people mature very early, others very late. No doubt there are 21 year olds who don't understand the nature of their crimes, and 15 year olds who do. Though it might be worth noting that we actually have one of the lowest ages of criminal responsibility in Europe.

However, there's no question that it's the right thing for these two to be sentenced as minors: that's exactly what they were when they did it. You're either a minor or you're not, it isn't something that can vary according to how you've behaved, and how angry the public are with you. It's totally understandable that when a person does something awful, people want all the usual hallmarks of a civilised society and a proper justice system to be done away with. I won't pretend to be immune from those sentiments myself, but I know we can't act on them.

If it helps anyone, the culprits haven't ended up better off because of their delaying tactics, they'd almost certainly have been better off coughing to it at the time. They haven't got a lighter sentence than they'd have got in the 90s, and they're not going to get the benefit of lots of support and a new identity if and when they ever get out, which they might have done first time round.

Grandhighpoohba · 04/01/2012 12:51

When it comes to their parole hearings in 15/14 years, the fact that they lied about their involvement and caused additional suffering will become very relevant - they will have to justify that behaviour and convince the Parole Board that they have changed before they will be considered for release. Their previous dishonesty will have a bearing on whether they are believed in the future.

kelly2000 · 04/01/2012 13:05

What is the betting that when they get out they will get new identities given to them, and police protection?

BupcakesandCunting · 04/01/2012 13:08

They'll probably get new identities in prison via the free facial rearrangment scheme that runs inside the types of prison they will be slammed up in.

PansPeople · 04/01/2012 13:13

If the facial re-arrangement scheme occurs then the Priosn Service will be shown to have failed, in addition to the Police Service having already failed.

Greythorne · 04/01/2012 13:17

Being found guilty of murder means an automatic life sentence with a minimum before being considered for parole.

The judge has set the minimum at a tarif higher than the minimum. But even so, this odes not mean they wikl be out after the minimum. They will only be eligible for parole then. And if they are paroled, if they do anything which breaks the terms of their parole, they can and will be sent straight back.

I do think the rules have to be observed. I hate it when people get all vigilante-esque when there are very hard cases like this. The difference between civilised, rational, law-abiding people (like us) is that we respect the rule of law. Scum like these murderers do not. Let's not sink to their level, no matter how tempting.

Grandhighpoohba · 04/01/2012 13:22

If the media does a pitchfork waving campaign, then yes, they will probably need new identities, because whatever their offence, the state cannot condone violence, or fail to protect its citizens from violence. A just state has to protect everyone, without fail. If it doesn't, how can you be sure that you will be protected?

Gumby · 04/01/2012 13:24

Agree with Greythorne

I am surprised their hasn't been vigilante attacks on the other members of the gang, I hope it doesn't start now but somehow they manage to convict them

bejeezus · 04/01/2012 13:31

i doubt they will need new identities
I would be very suprised if they survive 15 years in prison

I wouldnt 'sink to their level' of violence, hatefulness and lawlessness. But I would admit to feeling no regret, if someone that was already there, finished them off

Serenitysutton · 04/01/2012 13:53

One is already in prison- presumbaly this sentance will begin after his current one ends? he could be inside for far longer. Not for that specifically crime, admittidly, but inside none the less.

I'm not sure the chances of vigilantism or gettign beaten in prison are that high- they are imtimdating bullies, well connected and who knows what kind of protection they have sorted out.

kelly2000 · 04/01/2012 13:56

I cannot see why they would be in more danger in prison than other killers. They are men in prison who raped and murdered children and they do not get killed, look at Robert Black. The men who committed the race-hate kidnap, torture and murder of Kris donaldson are in prison safe and well as far as I am aware. I have not heard of Levi bellfield being beaten up, at least not badly. If you think about the amount of killers in prison, there are very few revenge killings on these people. Apart from anything if they get beaten in prison it will give them sympathy from the judges if they appeal, and it will mean they will be due compensation which would be just sickening.

AbsofCroissant · 04/01/2012 14:12

They have to be tried and sentenced, under the law as it was at the time of their crime. One of the basic principles of law is that it can't be retroactive (I'm by no means an expert, but the only kind of "retroactive" conviction I know of was for attempted marital rape, when it was still legal in the UK, and the judge got around it by saying "the law was moving towards marital rape being a crime, so suck it" --> not direct quote). This is also why they can't be found guilty of a racial hate crime, as it wasn't a crime when they killed him.

bejeezus · 04/01/2012 14:41

No, you're right kelly there are very few revenge attacks in prison. Must of thought I was in a Hollywood blockbuster for a moment there...

There were some attempts on Ian Huntleys life though?

TheSmallClanger · 04/01/2012 15:18

There are a lot of black inmates in many prisons, particularly the London-area ones that these two will be sent to (Belmarsh I think). That's why the risk of revenge attacks is being talked about as higher than normal.

BTW, I'm not inferring anything racist about the numbers of black prisoners - it is a sad fact that the percentage of black men in the prison population is much higher than the population as a whole, due to many interlinking factors.

Serenitysutton · 04/01/2012 15:21

But the south London area they are from has a pretty high black popultion- they seen to have been safe last 19 years....

TheSmallClanger · 04/01/2012 15:23

True.
They won't have their little schoolboy gang or their gangster dads to run to now though.

Serenitysutton · 04/01/2012 15:25

Hopefully not (as terrible as that sounds)

AmberLeaf · 04/01/2012 16:45

I'm not sure the chances of vigilantism or gettign beaten in prison are that high- they are imtimdating bullies, well connected and who knows what kind of protection they have sorted out

One of them has already been attacked in prison-bones were broken. this was a while back. [I think it was Norris]

They are not really well connected these days-not those two at least, David norris father is not what he once was apparently, after leaving prison he exists on benefits and lives in a bedsit.

Dobson was only really connected by association with the others.

I expect they will be kept apart from others on 'rule 45' I think it is?

BupcakesandCunting · 04/01/2012 16:56

"I cannot see why they would be in more danger in prison than other killers."

One of them, Norris, has already had most of his teeth knocked out in Belmarsh.

IndieSkies · 04/01/2012 17:20

Maybe some black people, even prisoners, realise that the Lawrence's dignity, the Lawrence's role in getting institutional racism identified and labelled, is not best served and supported by black people descending into a lawless vigilante violent mob?
Maybe some MN-ers could consider the same question?
Hmm

AmberLeaf · 04/01/2012 17:27

Indie, maybe thats why they have gone pretty much unscathed for the last 18 years?

They are in jail now....who gives a shit what happens to them?

I dont.

susiedaisy · 04/01/2012 19:02

Have they ever established which two men stabbed Stephen? He received two stabs wounds one on each side of his body, so I assume more than one man had a knife?

limitedperiodonly · 04/01/2012 23:22

I despise Dobson and Norris but which prisoners do you deem suitable to mete out punishment to them?

No matter what their colour or creed what the fuck do you dafties think they're in there for?

To deliver social justice? Or for murder, assault, robbery or for lesser crimes?

They're in prison. They need to be kept away from society or else they would do it to me and you. Wake up.