to think that elderly people living alone in 3/4 bed council houses should not have a choice about whether they want to stay there?

[BlessYouToo]

In fact, they should be moved into one bedroom accommodation as soon as the kids leave home (this should have happened years ago of course). Having a 'spare' bedroom in case the grandchildren come to stay should not be an option when they are in state owned properties.

I have today been to view a council property with a friend of mine who has been homeless for 3 years (in temp accommodation) after finally getting to the top of the bidding queue! She was called to see a 4 bedroom house and it was absolutely rank, the smell made me want to heave. Plaster was hanging off the wall and the whole place was damp as the previous tenant either, did not or could not, heat and ventilate it properly Apparently the house was in a much worse than the state we saw it in today but the council had done some remedial work on it to make it safe so it was a bit better. The garden was also just a sea of brambles.

We were told that an elderly person had been living there and had just been moved into a nursing home. T

I was shocked that the council could rent out a property in this state. I would have expected that they would have made sure the property was up to a decent, clean standard before renting it out as any other landlord would have to do (all my friend will get is a paint allowance if she is eligible) but I am even more shocked that this elderly tenant was allowed to let the property get into this condition. Why do councils not carry out inspections to ensure their properties don't get into this state? Obviously the house was too much for the previous tenant to cope with and surely they would have been better off with a smaller property that they could keep clean?

We were told that many of the properties coming available after elderly tenants have either died, or gone into alternative accommodation, are left in a similar state. How many families with young children are left crammed into tiny flats while elderly people are living in houses much too large for their needs, letting them decay around them? I find it unbelievable that this has been happening.

I feel gutted for my friend as she has been desperate to get a stable home for her DCs and will now be going into a total shithole without even carpets on the floor, just cement. It's a bloody disgrace! AIBU?

sozzledchops said "Where is this idea that council housing is just for the poorest in society?"

Where is the idea that it isn't just for the poorest in society or it shouldn't be? How can some people think it's right that some families get preferential treatment and discounted rent for no other reason than being the right place at the right time 10, 20 or 30 years ago? I submit that the people who think it's right are the ones who happening to be benefitting from the unfair discount and don't wish to give it up.

Really Portofino - DH's grandad was sent down the mine on his 14th birthday. He was one of 9 children living in a two up two down miners cottage in South Wales. My grandmother lost two brothers in the second world war - one a pilot shot down, the other shot himself in 1962 having never recovered mentally from being a pow in Japan.

They had it all did they, together with a sense of entitlement

And before anyone jumps on me again - and I'm not getting heavily involved in this again tonight - I am still not blaming individuals for taking advantage of the situation while it exists. But it shouldn't exist.

Married, well you are talking of people born earlier if they died in the war. I am talking of the post war NHS generation. At at no point did I say they had it all! But they were promised stuff. It is hardly unreasonable that they expect to get it.

My GPs DO have a sense of entitlement - they are homeowners yet expect the council to sort them now they can't manage. Because this is what they were promised! Cradle to grave care.

We are arguing here that we should not make the elderly leave their council homes. This is the ONLY time I guess that this argument will EVER happen, as before, noone had one, and in the future, I am sure that the rules will be different.

And I have done my family tree back to the 1600s. I know full well how my ancestors were employed and where they lived - plenty on the fields and down mines thank you. Current threads about overcrowding would have caused much astonishment amongst my forebears I am sure. But we have moved on....

gaelic - the rent for council housing is not discounted, or subsidised. Council rents are cheaper because they aren't artificially inflated by the bubble that the property market has become. Council housing isn't part of that market. Private rents reflect what landlords can get away with - the cost of purchase, the cost of financing the borrowing, and profit on top. The same sums do not apply to council housing.

Council rents are discounted/ subsidised compared to the market rate which is based on supply and demand - what people are willing to pay. The council could charge more and use the money to improve/expand stock.

"How can some people think it's right that some families get preferential treatment and discounted rent for no other reason than being the right place at the right time 10, 20 or 30 years ago? I submit that the people who think it's right are the ones who happening to be benefitting from the unfair discount and don't wish to give it up."

But gaelic, this could also be said of people who bought their house 10, 20, or 30 years ago. That was no fairer.

It could be said of you.

I grew up in a council house. As we grew up my parents downsized from a 4 to 3 bedded house. My mum continued to live there after the death of my father. As my my mum became more frail we persuaded her to move to a 2 bedroomed bungalow. She was quite reluctant to move as she had lots of memories at the house. However, when she left the house was left in immaculate condition.
Sadly she only lasted 9 months in the new bungalow. We put her through the trauma and expense of moving for only 9 months.

So please do not judge those who stay put.

But gaelic, this could also be said of people who bought their house 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

Er, no. Because if you rent it's not your house! You also can't knock down walls, or rent it to someone else!

I just want to know where whoever it was got the figure of £50 a week for council rent?? (sorry dont know who it was have read lots since then)

My rent on my 4 bed HA property is £96 a week. Still cheap?? By private rentals yes, but it's certainly not £50.

I say it on every "lets all throw the council/HA tenants out" threads. It ISN'T the council houses that need to be looked at. The private rental market needs regulating.

Mildly, you have missed the point massively.

I am pointing out that the housing open market is no fairer.

The housing market is governed by market forces. Social housing is governed by government policy.

Christ, I'm leaving this thread before I get patronised into oblivion.

Think of it as me freeing up room for other posters.

I haven't read the whole thread but I mildly agree with the OP. Council houses are a form of benefit and so are subject to change like any other state subsidy. An elderly person in the private sector who didn't pay their rent would be out on their ear, as would an elderly person not paying their mortgage, so all this 'inhumane' stuff is nonsense. No one has security like that given by the public sector.

Whoops.

Ideally everyone would be living in a naice area in a lovely home suited to their needs. That's never going to happen with council properties so they should be allocated according to need, with periodic reviews. And yes, there should be more council accommodation suitable for downsizers but that is going to take seconf place to building family size homes until under-occupancy is no longer a problem.

I can see both sides of it.

Elderly people don't need a big house subsidised by the government when it's half empty with no children living their anymore.

On the other hand if you rely on subsidised housing from the government becasue you can't afford your own home or private rent, don't have so many children that you need a big house. No money to house yourself but no problem carrying on having children to the extent where the goverment needs to provide you a big house? Good Jesus!

My grandfather remained alone in a 4 bed council house following the death of my grandmother. They had been there 30 years. He refused to move until
my moneygrubbing uncle bought it through Right To Buy and flogged it on for a big fat profit.
The whole system is a total fiasco.

My rent on my 4 bed HA property is £96 a week. Still cheap??

Dirt cheap! You don't know you're born.

Yes ,you should be bloody grateful ,go and live in a hole in the road

how dare you have a house

YABVVU. I am quite horrified actually. Firstly, it's their home, not just 4 walls. Secondly, they're paying for it (my parents probably paid for theirs many times over after 50 years of tenancy). Thirdly, spare bedroom means family (like me) can stay over to keep on top of things. Instead of blaming the elderly for having poorly maintained homes, why not work off your fury doing a bit of cleaning for an isolated, elderly neighbour? And btw, social housing was never just for "housing the homeless", it was for meeting mass housing need, and it is the greedy private property speculators and commercial sharks who fleeced right-to-buy tenants and snapped up inner London properties that have led to this crisis, where people in housing need are encouraged to turn on each other.

It'll take far more than shifting a few inoffensive elderly people who have done nothing wrong to sort out the housing crisis. It's always handy for those in power to have scapegoats - everyone can get angry about elderly people with spare bedrooms, or the disabled, or single mothers, or the Jews, or whoever the bogeyman is this week, instead of asking some pretty searching questions of those in authority, who have the actual power to solve whatever the problem is.

Tethersend
I do not piss myself laughing when I say winning a council property should not be like winning a lottery.
The subsidized rent compared to private rents adds up considerably.
I know of people in London who have made 100 k to 250 k after selling o. Their council properties which they strategically bought , knowing they would profit from them

Having a council place in many cities affords people a standard of living not available to low income families who must rent privately.....because they are always cheaper.

Of course a single person should not be left I. A 4bed place when we have the housing shortage we face in the uk.

Edam

I think you would find that for that one family, getting the bigger house would make a big difference to all five or six people in that family and the difference to the one elderly person would be much smaller.

Searching questions don,t actually make a difference in the now to the family cramped into a too small space.

Every house released would make a difference to one family.
Difference enough to me to make it a worthwhile proposition.

Downsizing makes sense. But I dont agree to move the elderly against their will.

I have come to believe that it is unfair to "punish" elderly folks for not having been able to afford buying their own home, in their old age.

A person who owns their own home can chose to downsize, and most likely dont. They are unwilling to move from the home their children grew up, they dont want to get rid of their belongings to move out into something smaller. They want to be able to house the children and grandchildren when they visit.
Moving into a smaller home is the signal that they are near their expiry date, and holding onto their memories, their life becomes even more important.

If there is a system that grant people council homes, people should be allowed to stay in them for as long as they need them or want them. Otherwise it is cruel.

It makes more sense to renew the stock of council homes, as long as the system is in place.

Let old people enjoy their retirement and home in peace.

And let young people who need, really need council housing, get it.

Icooksocks.
You demonstrate my point well.
We pay over three times your rent in a private rental as will many others.
Oh for a rent of less than a hundred a week.....like the prices of the80s.
Glad you are a family that needs such subsidized rent.
The private rentals are indeed too high but this is just market forces and many rent out and only break even I suspect.
Both labour and conservative governments are to blame for our ridiculous over inflated housing market.....and the banks of course and people who borrowed more than they could afford In A bid to get on the ladder.
I refused to pay those stupid prices as it wS obvious that it wAs lunacy to pay 6to 10 times a non bankers salary just for a roof.