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AIBU?

To wonder how people manage AP when they have a toddler and a newborn? and not much help?

124 replies

titferbrains · 11/10/2011 19:51

Have spent most of last 4 weeks with baby in my arms, feeding, sleeping, passing baby to another person's arms, or with him in a sling. He has periods of being content and awake, lying in pram or on mat etc, but when tired he needs to be held and preferably fed a bit then cuddled for a bit before we can put him down.

AP principles are lovely for your PFB when you have lots of time and energy to give, but how do people manage when you have a 2nd or more? My DH is not around to help in the evenings, my DD is unwell and needs medicine, extra stories and cuddles atm, and puts up a fight before she goes to sleep. I have been feeding ds while I do story but it's pretty uncomfortable holding a book and trying to stop dd from "patting" Ds.

Am not about to go cold turkey and let DS CIO, but would love to know how people manage toddler and tinies in a kind way. I tried to swaddle DS and put him in his cot (he normally sleeps with us) this eve and I made sure to (safely) make him feel cosy with a rolled up towel and my nightshirt next to him, but after a quick feed, low lighting and music, I put him down and he went from calm to rage in about 10 seconds or less!

Do you have a clever routine/solution?

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charitygirl · 12/10/2011 08:48

What an embarrassment. I can only assume the posters barking about 'rod for your own back' and 'ignore the books' feel somehow got at that titfer is doing a few things a bit differently to how they did it - her post could hardly have been less inflammatory or divisive.

Have some actual confidence in your choices and you won't need to pour scorn on someone who was just asking for advice from like-minded people. It makes you look terribly insecure.

Good luck OP. Sounds like you're doing fine, but it is so hard without help in the evenings - the evillest time of the day!

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tryingtoleave · 12/10/2011 08:50

Gosh, the tone of mn on this issue has really changed.

I was much more ap with dc2 because it was the only way I could survive with a naughty, non sleeping toddler. I co slept because I couldn't rest during the day and I managed that way. I used a sling to get dd to sleep while I was doing housework, because I didn't have any other time to get it done. Maybe I'm neurotic but I hate hearing my babies cry - it makes me stressed and unhappy and mine are real screamers - and that way I managed to avoid it.

The first year with two dcs was still fairly hellish, because it is extremely hard ( impossible actually) to keep two little children happy. But I couldn't believe how easy managing the baby was - I kept wishing I'd done it for dc1 and thinking about how easy my life would have been.

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minimisschief · 12/10/2011 08:51

So what exactly is the point/purpose of having a child attached to you 24/7?

with our newborn she gets fed and then popped in a bouncer chair or popped on the playmat thing or in a moses basket etc etc

because we have a 4 year old who likes a bit of attention too aswell as the fact you need some space yourself.

All i can imagine ap doing is making your life quite a bit miserable and difficult and your child really clingy

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BatsUpMeNightie · 12/10/2011 09:01

No charitygirl - I don't think the OP IS doing anything differently to most people actually! What most people seem to be railing against is the lunacy of adhering to acronyms when actually all anyone is doing is bloody parenting their children!

AP and all the rest of it my arse - you do what is right for you and your baby and no amount of trendy fuckwitted theory can change that.

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NightLark · 12/10/2011 09:07

This is like reading Babycentre used to be for me. I left Babycentre's boards 5 years ago because I felt so alienated by posts like some of these. And found MN where (ha) posters seemed better informed and more open minded.

AP (which I found out about AFTER muddling my way through the first few months with an unbelievably difficult baby) is just an acronym.

AP ideas work for some parent/baby combinations. For others, it won't be as relevant. No one is saying it is the best way, or the only way.

In my experience it was the only way to cope with DS without one or both of us going stark staring crazy.

With DD1, it was less relevant because she was less cuddly, less 'needy', less hungry etc etc. With DD2, time will tell, but slinging a baby makes life easy, not difficult, as (IMO) does co-sleeping and bf.

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OhdearNigel · 12/10/2011 09:12

OP, would your DD be able to get on with something (playing on her own/watching a bit of TV ?) while you try to get baby to sleep uninterrupted ? Then you could try and get her to sleep before the baby wakes up again. Are you still nursing your toddler, is it part of a bedtime routine for her ? How long does it take to get her to sleep ? I would continue to put baby down in your bed if that's where he feels most comfortable, simply because I foudn that if I followed DDs lead, that's how life was easiest. If that's where he goes to sleep fastest carry on doing that !

I only have one so you can take or leave my advice as it isn't based on practical experience !

AP isn't a prescriptive method, most of us are just muddling through trying our best to be as kind to our babies and ourselves as we can. I really recommend our forum - you'll be given great advice from mums that have been where you are and nobody will ridicule your choices.

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dreamingbohemian · 12/10/2011 09:15

If I remember right, 4 weeks was a tricky time -- a bit transitional.

We tried swaddling DS at 4 weeks, he hated it, but 2 weeks later he loved it and would drop right off to sleep with it.

I would try what you did last night again in a week or two and see what happens. Also experiment with the variables -- maybe no music would be better? or no light? DS needed music but complete darkness actually.

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Oblomov · 12/10/2011 09:24

Isn't there an AP section, On MN ? I'm sure there used to be. AP guru's and 100's of people who did AP, to suggest helpful advice.
Used to be very supportive.
Not that I was there you know. I used a sling, didn't co-sleep, never wanted to. I had a baby, ds1, who put himself into a BF'ing routine of 6 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 2 o'clock routine, all by himself, within days. Was bizare.Freaky. I was like the epitome of Gina Ford. Even though I didn't know who she was and had never read her book.
But Ap is much deeper than that. It represents you, the way you think, the way you view paretning.
All I'm saying is that there used to be, I am sure of this, because i am sure i remember seeing it, a very supportive section of MN, that was very AP supportive.
where is this now ?
Nightlark and tryingtoleave confirm this. This is NOT GOOD, if Mn has gone so downhill that people like OP can not come for support.

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tryingtoleave · 12/10/2011 09:24

I doubt the op or many posters want to have their babies attached to them 24/7. No need to paint everything in such extremes.

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choceyes · 12/10/2011 09:31

I am more AP with my second than with my first. DD who is now 14 months, always wanted to be held, wouldn't let me put her down, so I had to sling her most of them time. I feel a bit sorry for DS, cos that didn't leave my hands free for him when he needed me some of them time, but at the same time, I hated leaving DD to cry too. and I felt that she was the more vulnerable one at the time. Although I've always made ways to spend time with DS like read books to him etc.

it is hard juggling a baby and toddler. I breastfeed DD to sleep, not because I want to make a rod for my own back, but because it's the quickest way to get her to sleep, which then leaves me free to take over from DH the task of putting DS to sleep and read him a few books.

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choceyes · 12/10/2011 09:32

Not hands free, I meant I couldn't give him cuddles whilst she was in the sling in front of me. Sling ofcourse does make you hands free!

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havinhoops1974 · 12/10/2011 09:36

Is that where you carry them around all the time? like all tribal- like

I spoke to someone doing this

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TandB · 12/10/2011 10:27

The point of having a baby attached to you '24/7' would be if that baby and mother were happy that way. It's a perfectly valid way of caring for a child. There is no reason why anyone should have to have any justification beyond 'it works for us'. There are plenty of theories about the benefits of course, but most people do it because they want to, just like people who use a pram do that because they want to.

At the risk of being 'all tribal-like" Hmm, there is a very interesting article kicking around called something like 'why African babies don't cry'. It is by a woman of African heritage, raised in the UK and her choice to follow the advice of her older female relatives. She is pretty balanced about the whole thing, including the fact that there were times when things were more difficult than for other people she knew who were following a more mainstream western approach. I found it interesting from a practical viewpoint, rather than a philosophical one. My Ghanian colleague's experiences were similar and I think it is worth being aware of the positives in other cultures and their approaches.

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BertieBotts · 12/10/2011 10:32

I think if OP had posted in Parenting the thread might have been less "LOL WTF are you doing that for??" and more helpful (though there have been some helpful responses!)

AP support thread (mix of singletons and 2 or more children)
Discussion thread on AP/UC with two

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Hardgoing · 12/10/2011 11:43

I had a quick look at those threads, Bertie (thanks) and one of the most sensible things said on there is that most parenting philosophies start to fall down when you have two very close in age children. If you love a routine, the naptimes are all 'wrong' when you do the school run; if you do full-on AP, it can be difficult to be responsive to both at once (esp. if you 'wear' baby and other child actively doesn't like that!)

I have a friend who had twins and an 18 month old. I asked her how she coped and she replied 'I just got over the fact really early on that I couldn't possibly meet all three children's needs at exactly the same time. I didn't have enough hands. Once I got over that, I felt much better'.

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Hardgoing · 12/10/2011 11:45

And, I have seen two sets of parents who were very commited to AP just go into freefall difficulties around this time, as the older (18 month-2 years) child couldn't sleep alone and still woke in the night and the baby then did the same. But they all survived! You just do, I just felt a bit sorry for them that they had tied up so much of their identity in having a child that they were utterly responsive to and never cried (their measure of success) and then of course there was crying night after night for ages. Being guided by something, and trying your best to do something isn't the same as feeling a failure if you don't follow a book to the letter.

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BertieBotts · 12/10/2011 11:54

I do think that's definitely true. You can't be supermum all the time even with one - it must be much harder when the second comes along.

There's another thread currently in Parenting which is about the same issue although from the perspective of trying to keep to AP/UP with the older child.

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MothInMyKecks · 12/10/2011 12:23

All i can imagine ap doing is making your life quite a bit miserable and difficult and your child really clingy

I s'pose you would make this assumption if you didn't actually think about it. All 3 of mine were most certainly brought up this way (although with my 1st, the term AP didn't exist, but I was called a hippy instead Grin).

They're all very independent individuals, content in their own skin and quietly confident with others. Clingy is not a word I'd ever use to describe them. Neither were they ever 'runners' and I didn't ever need reigns, nor to chase them when we were out and about.

That's the problem when parenting styles are written as formula's and sold and preached about - it brings an edge to other Mum's opinions and can cause brittle arguments. Point is, some styles suit some, others suit others. Unless babies are caused harm, there should be no room for criticism. I just wish everyone would remember that.

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titferbrains · 12/10/2011 12:39

Well some of you will smile wryly when you hear that there has been much leaving to cry in order to get things done this morning...

DD is just having lunch now...in her pyjamas. I did manage to put DS down for a sleep this mornign while I showered, but he woke just after I got out, to have a poo. I have "responded" to DD's "needs" by letting her watch movies all morning while I variously fed, dressed and ate. I am smiling too! Really don't care as we have got thru the morning on our own and I'm just grateful be halfway thru the day.

Want to reply to some of you, will do so when I get another minute...

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choceyes · 12/10/2011 13:00

tifterbrains - that reminded me of how I coped when my DD was very small (and also to some extent now Blush). I put on Cbeebies for DS so I was free to tend to DD, as just wanted to be held by me and if DS wasnt' watching telly then he would be trying to get me to play with him or telling me to pick him up or trying to hurt DD.

DS co-slept with us till DD came along and then we shifted him out to his own room, but in hindsight he wasn't ready to sleep on his own. Even now most days DH goes and sleeps in his bed.
I will be glad of the day when they are both sleeping independantly TBH. I don't want to go down the CC path, so it's just take it's own sweet time I guess.

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nethunsreject · 12/10/2011 13:00

titfer, I wholeheartedly agree with Oblomov's posts.

Mn is pretty shitty now at times, with people jumping on things at inappropriate times.

I tend to go elsewhere now for parenting support, as it seems to be remarkably similar to Nethuns wrt attitudes to babies these days.

I still like this place for a larf though, but not support, no.

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titferbrains · 12/10/2011 13:27

yes there does seem to be a lack of, er, warmth on MN at times...

Yes I could have posted in parenting but I have only posted on AIBU once before and I was just interested to see whether people would respond calmly (Hah!) or whether they would be less...measured in their response, AIBU does seem to have that sort of effect eh? Reminds me of monty python skit re: paying to have an argument...

I hope that it's clear that I am not saying I am an AP parent thru and thru, I did use the word "leaning" in one of my posts because it really is nothing more than a tendency, I have no desire to become an AP bore...

I will say that I would rather not have DS in my bed past 6 months so will probably try to get him into his cot sooner rather than later, but like many of u I will be flexible on this.

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titferbrains · 12/10/2011 13:28

bertie, tks for links, will have a look when I'm doing the next feed....

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MothInMyKecks · 12/10/2011 13:50

I hope that it's clear that I am not saying I am an AP parent thru and thru, I did use the word "leaning" in one of my posts because it really is nothing more than a tendency, I have no desire to become an AP bore...

I will say that I would rather not have DS in my bed past 6 months so will probably try to get him into his cot sooner rather than later, but like many of u I will be flexible on this.

But that's my point entirely OP - you've absolutely no need to justify your post, your beliefs, your values etc. Don't let anyone make you feel like you have to. You love your children, you're doing your best to find your feet. That's it.

Enjoy the cuddles Smile

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