To wonder how people manage AP when they have a toddler and a newborn? and not much help?

[titferbrains]

Have spent most of last 4 weeks with baby in my arms, feeding, sleeping, passing baby to another person's arms, or with him in a sling. He has periods of being content and awake, lying in pram or on mat etc, but when tired he needs to be held and preferably fed a bit then cuddled for a bit before we can put him down.

AP principles are lovely for your PFB when you have lots of time and energy to give, but how do people manage when you have a 2nd or more? My DH is not around to help in the evenings, my DD is unwell and needs medicine, extra stories and cuddles atm, and puts up a fight before she goes to sleep. I have been feeding ds while I do story but it's pretty uncomfortable holding a book and trying to stop dd from "patting" Ds.

Am not about to go cold turkey and let DS CIO, but would love to know how people manage toddler and tinies in a kind way. I tried to swaddle DS and put him in his cot (he normally sleeps with us) this eve and I made sure to (safely) make him feel cosy with a rolled up towel and my nightshirt next to him, but after a quick feed, low lighting and music, I put him down and he went from calm to rage in about 10 seconds or less!

Do you have a clever routine/solution?

[nethunsreject]

YY, I am Jamie! Totally agreeing with you!

We all find our own way, don't we? I identify most with AP stylee stuff, but that's just kind of who I am and who my kids are. And AP's not 'strict'; it is entirely about trying to meet the needs of your kids as best you can at that particular time.

[nethunsreject]

I think AP is useful short hand though.

[JamieComeHome]

Oh good!

[JamieComeHome]

x-postarama

[nethunsreject]

I don't think it implies the alternative is not caring. But I do see where you are coming from.

[nethunsreject]

Pmsl!

Bottom line - OP is doing a fab job during what is one of the hardest parts of parenting.

[Rikalaily]

Dd1 was born when ds was 2.10, he was a very chilled out baby so very high needs dd1 was a shock to the system, she had silent reflux and awful colic so had to be carried upright or she was in agony and screaming. I'd never used a sling or coslept before but was willing to try anything as she only slept about 2 hours out of 24 and ex dp worked nights (arrggh)... So I bought a pouch sling and started sleeping with her propped up on my arm while I slept on my side and never looked back.

If you need to put the baby down in the cot etc, you have the right idea with a rolled up towel and shirt but you need to warm the cot first, it's the dramatic temperature difference (from warm mummy to cool cot sheet) that wakes them, you can use a hot water bottle or one of those wheaties warmed in the microwave to warm the spot where you lay baby down beforehand (obviously removing the hwb etc first). Also adding a microfleece blanket over the sheet keeps them settled, it warms up almost instantly when they are put on it. Dd3 is 17 months and still has a fleece blanket as her top sheet (is handy if they are sick or a nappy leaks too as it's water resistant).

I also think laying them on thier side/tummy is fine as long as you are there in the room supervising, alot of babies hate sleeping on thier backs, my last 3 have been side sleepers. Patting babies bum or stroking thier back after you put them down can help them settle too, it reassures them that you are close. I make a soft shhh'ing sound while doing it and as they get older just hearing that sound makes them settle (95% of the time) if they wake slightly in the night.

When cuddling with ds (or dd1 or 2 with subsequent babies) I'd keep baby in the pouch sling and moved more to the left tucked into the crook of my arm (so more or less out of sight of older child with sling in the way) and keep the older one/ones on my right cuddled up to my side, then either hold the book etc in my right hand or let them hold it while I read, or keep baby on the bed/couch on one side of me and the older child/children on the other side away from baby.

Another way I did it if laying on a bed or lengthways on the couch was to lay on my back and prop baby between my legs with thier back, neck, head laying against my crotch area, that leaves your whole top end to snuggle up to older ones and baby still feels snuggled by mummy too, you need to swaddle them a bit for this so they are not floppy to stop them slipping down.

Don't worry, it will get easier as baby gets more interested in the world around them. Most children love being involved with baby, helping snuggle and read stories to them, even if they can't read they can make a story up themselves to tell baby.

[JamieComeHome]

I did the lying-on-the-side-bum-patting-thing with DS2

Aaaaaaaw

It is a hard time of parenting. But when DS2 smiled at DS1 first, and spoke his first words to him, it made all the trauma it all worth it.

[bringmesunshine2009]

You can still EBF, co sleep and give DC2 a bit of a carry and still deal with DC1. Agree with leave the baby to it when necessary to save DC1 from scrapes.

Get DC2 involved by letting him see you are doing with the older one. For example put in a bouncy chair and bring baby into the bathroom when bathing older child, into bedroom when changing older shild, in front room when reading a story. A really lovely bouncy chair like the Babybjorn one is perfect. They feel like they are part of the action and all the night feeds and snuggles are exclusively for the baby.

An occasional hang the housework and sit down with both and read a story is great for both. My house is a disaster. But nevermind. The real challenge is not totally losing your rag and screaming will you both please be quiet and hiding in the bathroom.

[squeakytoy]

There is always WWB parenting.... and ITB parenting

What Works Best and Ignore The Babybooks

It does amuse me when you hear someone carting a child around permanently attached to them, and then wondering why when they put the child down for five minutes to deal with something the child starts screeching... and if anyone dares to suggest that they are encouraging a clingy baby they get shouted down...

Stick the baby in a vibrating bouncer where it can see you, and get on with doing what you need to do... a child does not need to be scrunched up in a sling all day...

[whathappenedtom]

Whatever you do, it's just bloody hard having a toddler and baby.(shudders at the memory). It gets easier honest.

[Jojay]

Cheers allboxedin - it needed it

[bumbleymummy]

Jamie, CIO is not just letting a baby grizzle a bit before it goes to sleep. It is leaving a crying baby in a room by itself until it stops whether it takes minutes or hours. Some people confuse it with CC which I, personally, don't like either (particularly with babies) but CIO is just cruel and I don't think the term is unnecessarily emotive at all - it calls it what it is.

OP it sounds like you're doing a great job and as long as you are happy just stick with it. If you are steering more towards AP you may want to check out some other parenting forums too because, as you can see, you'll probably get more judgement than support here - particularly in AIBU! :)

[JamieComeHome]

bumbley - I think the term CIO is used by some people when what they mean is CC. I wan't very clear before. I've never met anyone who uses CIO.

[MrsBloodyTroll]

Hi titfer we were on one or two pre-birth threads together where we were bemoaning how hard it was coping with a toddler whilst heavily pregnant and knackered, with DHs working long hours and not around to help. I'm currently "wearing" my Hallowe'en nn, was MrsBloomingTroll before.

Congrats on your DS! I also had a boy, now 8 weeks.

Anyway, from what I recall of your circumstances it sounds like you are doing a bloody incredible job of parenting, so well done! Personally I am of the muddling through/whatever works school of thought, using bouncy chair, dummy, whatever help I can get from wherever.

Good luck, and don't forget to take some time for yourself! Just do your best to whatever standard you set for yourself.

[Snowboarder]

I'm not trying to be inflammatory but surely no one out there would reasonably use the CIO method if it just means leaving your baby, potentially for hours, to cry by itself. It's the first I've heard of that term, and I can't actually believe anyone would do that, or am I being too sensitive?

I spend an awful lot of time holding my 7mo DS (who is admittedly my PFB), he has GERD (severe reflux) and settles so much better in my arms. He was also 3 months prem and spent his first two months of life being cared for in NICU so I feel like if I want to hold him all the time I will. I frankly couldn't give a shiny shite if anyone thinks I'm 'making a rod for my own back.' I guess I fall into the AP camp then, although I would say that's how things have turned out rather than me following a specific parenting doctrine.

[MurderBloodstabsandgore]

I wanted to tear the CIO page out of a library book I was so cross that anyone would think it was a good idea.

Have you never been in to see that the baby has her leg caught in the cot bars or the cat had jumped in the cot or something?

Anyway, I don't think anyone does do CIO unless they are a complete idiot, or their baby settles in 2 mins.

[begonyabampot]

really depends on the baby. Looks like I was AP with dc1 without realising it as he just was very needy, fed almost non stop and just needed you close all the time, it was exhausting though. Dc2 came along and cried when I picked him up and gave too much attention - he just wanted to be put down and left alone and could be left alone for hours.

[bumbleymummy]

Sadly some people do. There was someone on MN a few months ago who was recommending it because it had 'worked' for her. She left her screaming baby in a room for 3 hours :( I wasn't the only person to jump on her!

[MamaGeekChic]

Was very confused- read CIO as chief information officer, haha! Sorry, As you were...

[BatsUpMeNightie]

I think you just do what is best for you and your baby/other children at the time. That's called parenting. It's not called anything else and it doesn't need acronyms and pages out of progressive child rearing books and ten tons of other shite. It's just parenting. It's what you do.

[LaWeasel]

CIO is a very old fashioned method of the leave the pram at the bottom of the garden where you can't hear them generation, it is the kind of thing suggested by older people generally.

I would let DD do her grizzling thing before she went to sleep without interrupting because we found interrupting made it worse, and if she hadn't stopped after 5mins, or if she sounded distressed as opposed to whingy, we would go up to her. Which afaik is definately not recommended in AP! But worked really well for DD and didn't feel cruel.

[Snowboarder]

Bumbley, that's terrible. Thinking about that baby crying on it's own for 3 hours makes me

I suppose some babies are very needy, some are more independent but none of them have read the books, what works for one could be a disaster for another. You just do what you need to get through with the minimum of trauma for both mum, baby and siblings surely?

[TandB]

I don't "do" attachment parenting as such - a lot of people seem to subscribe to it as some sort of formula which requires that you do set things in a particular way. But I do use a sling exclusively and have never done the strict routine thing, and DS was never left to cry and he slept in our bed regularly.

I really don't see why those who choose to do similar things are always on the receiving end of cries of "rod for your own back" and "mollycoddling", and why so much ridicule is levelled at them. If it works for you then get on with it. If it doesn't work for you then do things your own way and let others get on with it in their way.

I don't really get why people decide to follow a particular school of parenting, but I really don't like the mockery that seems to follow any discussion of anything that can possibly be said to fall into "AP". I don't understand it either - there are parts of the world where they would think a lot of our common practices in the western world are completely bizarre.

I work with a Ghanian lady who is a great advocate of slings/BFing on demand/co-sleeping etc - not because she read a book about it or decided what "type" of parent she wanted to be, but simply because generations of women in her culture had found that it worked for them. I can't imagine laughing at her or telling her that she was making a rod for her own back. Not least because she is scary formidable!

When DS2 arrives in a couple of months I am hoping that the same things we did with DS1 will work for him too. It will make life a lot easier if he is happy to be slung so that my hands are free to chase around after his brother!

[bumbleymummy]

I know snow :( I can't get my head around people who do that. It was the fact that she was recommending it as well! No shame.

It is hard trying to juggle more than one at the start and deal with all the guilt - DC1 getting less attention, DC2 not getting as much as DC1 did etc etc but it sorts itself out eventually. I think it is possible to do it without leaving anyone to cry but it can be more demanding depending on your own personality and your children's personalities.