Opinions please: worried about the state of my parents' house, is there a problem?

[AnalAboutCleaning]

Namechanged for this.

I'm a bit worried about my parents' house. It's always been messy, and I know my DH thinks I am a bit anal about cleaning and tidying our place, so I just don't really know what's 'normal'. I know some things are proper issues, but others maybe I'm just being precious about? Basically I want to get a sense of how much each of these things would bother you and whether you think I need to say something/do something. It's very hard to talk to my mum about these issues so often I just end up cleaning up when I am there, but I don't live near home. My dad doesn't seem to get it either - he does very little housework. Part of the problem is, I have a baby niece and she will be crawling soon. My parents would be devastated if she got ill, and are expecting to do lots of looking after grandchildren - but I don't know if this will happen if the house stays as it is. Please let me know what you think to the following examples:

1. The kitchen floor is dirty and stick - your feet would go black after a few minutes. They have a new wood floor so they ask me to take my heels off (they wear flat shoes, and don't remove them, so don't seem aware of the issue).
   
   
2. Toilets are white, and stained brown inside. They buy eco bleach - does it not work? Or do they not use it enough?
   
   
3. The fridge always smells. Spills are not wiped up and things go rotten inside. I don't know if this is just unpleasant or a health issue?
   
   
4. Mice. They insist the mice are gone, but one room constantly has droppings in it. I don't know what to do: they say no mice get caught in traps but clearly they are there! Is this a health issue if other rooms don't have obvious signs of mice?
   
   
5. Dishes are left uncovered overnight - eg., poured-off cooking fat, leftover salad dressing. Sometimes if flies fall in they are thrown out but I worry my mum doesn't always notice or look clearly to see!
   
   
6. The cloth for washing dishes is always scrunched up, wet, after use. Needless to say it soon starts to smell. Do you always rinse yours out and let it dry, or is that me being anal? How often do you wash them? Mum claims they are washed once a week - I don't think this is enough and also doubt it really is that often. Teatowels - again, they're often stiff and smelly, how often do you wash?
   
   
7. The kitchen (newly re-done, they're very proud of it so it's hard to criticize) has surfaces that run all around, so the draining board and worktop are all the same surface. Chopping boards are used for eg. raw meat, but not always very precisely, and I'd be amazed if there's not cross-contamination. How likely would you be to get ill from this?
   
   Thanks if you made it this far!

[ggirl]

i think if your brother is worried about his dd staying there and crawling on dirty floors he should offer to wash them when he takes her round.

I used to do this at my parents ,in fact if someone brought a crawling baby round here I'd need to wash the floor as we keep our shoes on here.

[theluckiest]

Not sure if I have any practical advice but just wanted to sympathise....you could have been posting about my parents. I am often amazed that I made it through childhood without salmonella or listeria or something equally as horrid. The carpet in the living room is threadbare in places and I noticed the other day that both DSs had black feet after running about without shoes in there...yuck.

Its more cluttered than untidy as both parents are hoarders. Dad cleans the kitchen occasionally but his standards of hygiene are questionable to say the least! I remember as a child that he used to cook whilst smoking a fag and dropping ash on worktops, food, everywhere (he's given up now, thank goodness although still doesn't see the need to cover food/use separate chopping boards, etc).

I've chickened out of mentioning it TBH. I do follow kids into kitchen when they ask for squash and discreetly wash cups before my Dad uses them. The way we've got round it is that my parents come over to us when they look after the kids the majority of the time. Could this be an option if they will be doing a lot of looking after your children?

[LineRunner]

Dirt is healthy. Not glamorous, but it does build up a child's immune system. But the child has to be exposed a lot, not just on the occasional visit.

Mice droppings, not good. Not in anyone's book. Not even mine. Which is why I have two cats who sleep in the sinks who make sure my home is mice-free and lovely.

[HellonHeels]

The fridge: rotten food needs to be removed and spills cleaned up. Risk of cross-contamination. Raw meat and cooked foods must not come into contact - this can cause serious illness eg food poisoning.

Mice: if there are mouse droppings there are mice and this needs to be sorted out.

The cloth for washing dishes - should be rinsed out and unscrunched to dry. Left wet and scrunched it will harbour more bacteria. Should be regularly washed and /or binned. Teatowels - a new one every day minimum.

Chopping boards. This is a huge risk! Boards used for raw meat and fish should not be used for fresh or ready to eat foods unless they have been throughly cleaned first. There is a very real risk of cross contamination so please do worry about this.

Just a few of my answers for you. You are not (IMHO) being anal about this, nor do you sound condescending.

[AnalAboutCleaning]

ggirl - I don't think my mum would stand for him turning up, washing the floor, and repeating that every day - which I guess he'd have to if we think mice are there. But I take your point - I might suggest he gets in touch and says he'll come but wants to help out by doing some cleaning/baby proofing, if that sounds good?

luckiest - yes, could be an option. Brother is coming over first to house-hunt as they're moving, so initially it wouldn't be possible. I think the main issue though is that my parents would love to be hosts and will be upset if this doesn't happen. I suspect my brother is nervy about mentioning it (in fact I think he'd love it if I did his dirty work! ), but I really think it'd be better if my parents could be persuaded there's a problem they can solve before they end up with a routine of not having the baby at theirs.

[LineRunner]

The other thing I would suggest is that we (in my rather bohemian household) always have one reasonably clean room at a time, so that if we have visitors we can out put them in that room without shame!

Could your parents have one 'child friendly' room?

[Nagini]

To put it in perspective, both you and your brother are still alive, aren't you? So your mum and dad must have raised kids with roaring immune systems.

How does your brother live? if his house is a shit-tip he's not going to care

Practically I'd think about getting a travel cot or playpen she can sit in that will be clean. If I take my baby somewhere filthy, I know that she's got her own cup and bowl etc. You could get a large playmat to put on the floor.

You can buy toys for her that you can wash. These actions will look like you are enthusiastic about the baby rather than afraid of the dirt.

I think the baby will be safe, and that is the only thing to care about :)

[LineRunner]

Match that with what Nagini just said.

[AnalAboutCleaning]

line - that's a great idea! Yes, they could easily manage that. Thanks.

nagini - yep, we have fantastic immune systems!

My brother obviously does care - his initial thought was that the baby couldn't be left with them if the house were still in teh state it was when he saw it last. But mum claimed she'd got much cleaner. The thing is, she's had a new kitchen put in and it is very smart, but still precisely as dirty as before! Tricky. She and my dad are so looking forward to being hands-on grandparents - they would be gutted if my brother turned up and told them the house was too dirty so I am hoping that the one-room thing will work.

I am already making a rug for the baby to play on, so that might be a good time to give it to them. Mum is making loads of toys for her, she will be spoilt for choice!

[Scuttlebutter]

How about buying a one day food hygiene course for them? Our local college runs these very regularly and they are brilliant if you are involved with any charities/voluntary work as these days you can have the certificate for when serving teas/coffees/refreshments etc. They may genuinely not be aware of modern concerns about cross contamination etc.

Could you buy them some nice plastic/Tupperware/glass containers for storage of food items? Ikea do loads of glass containers really cheaply - this will help minimise what's available to the mice.

I wouldn't worry about the toilet as long as it was cleaned regularly, particularly if you are in a hard water area and they will only use eco cleaning products (are they on a septic tank?). It would bother me but I realise I'm fussy.

But broadly, I think it is up to your brother as to what standards he is comfortable with. If it were me, I would be having words as things like rotting food in the fridge, and mice everywhere (a fire risk, as they will be gnawing on wires) would send me batshit, never mind the tea towels (mine are ironed, and a fresh one is used whenever I dry up).

[skirt]

Its their line to draw though surely? You don't say they are incapable of deciding or thinking for themselves or anything like that, you just want them to keep their house like you keep yours and I think YABU for that.

[MoreBeta]

You are not being anal but I wonder if there is a combination of underlying problems.

My MIL/PIL are a bit older than your parents but wil not wear their glasses so they simply can't see dirt at all. We always clean when we go there.

Also if your mother has a bad knee and Dad never helps then it is clearly getting too much for her.

The fridge issue may well be because again they don't see the out of date warning on the lables, perhaps a little forgetful too and again cleaning is just getitng too much for Mum.

This is a really difficult issue to start telling your parents to tidy their house. I would be worried too and can see early signs of it in my own parents house as well.

Perhaps a quiet word on your own with your Mum asking if everything is OK and telling her you are worried. I wonder if there might be more serious health issues or depression even. Suggest a cleaner for 2 hours a week.

[PrincessJenga]

Tricky one! It does sound minging tbh, but it's hard to see how you can help if they won't get a cleaner (they're hardly going to change their habits now are they?)

Reading this thread has made me realise that my mum & dad must have had similar concerns about my grandparents' place. It was always filthy & I've only just realised how carefully timed our visits were! We'd arrive after dinner ('much easier to travel with children in the evening'), act like spoilt brats by carrying in our own bottles of pop to drink in the evening, have breakfast with them (prepared by mum 'so you can relax & play with the children' while she quietly cleaned as much of the kitchen as she could ), 'meet friends' or treat grandparents for lunch and then need to leave before tea time for some spurious reason. It worked. It still works in fact. When myself and DP visit with our new baby we'll be 'popping in' en route to someone else's house! (this is so ingrained that I never even really realised why we were doing it!)

[AnalAboutCleaning]

Thanks for replies.

cat - I said several times, my brother has asked me to work out this stuff and get back to him.

scuttle - good idea, but they would be furious and hurt if I bought them a hygiene course. They have teh stuff to put a plate over bowls of leftover fat/to put food in tupperware - they just forget to do it.

skirt - no, I think you've misread something, but I said in my OP that I know I am a bit anal, so don't want to use my own housekeeping as a standard for theirs. That's why I wanted to get some opinions on what a range of people would think to these situations.

beta - she's only 59 - do you think so? I am worried and not quite trusting my memory whether it was always this bad or not. Her sight should be fine - she had an eye test quite recently.

[Scuttlebutter]

If they have any voluntary/charity work/church activities, this could be a peg to hang it on? "Gosh, you need a certificate these days to make a cup of tea and serve cake at the Church fete, eyeroll, whatever next? etc. etc." but be thinking they might get some of the benefits by osmosis?

My MIL does a lot with Guides, WI and other voluntary groups and is in her 60s and although her own food hygiene is impeccable, did a course, I think because she helps out at the WI market.

[AnalAboutCleaning]

No, they don't I'm afraid scuttle. They are only 59 and 61, they're not retired or even thinking about it.

[RevoltingPeasant]

Anal unless you think it is early-onset dementia or something, which I don't think you do, then I don't think age is the issue. My PILs are 55 and 58, and my own mum and dad 62 and 64.... and PILs and DM definitely do not have cleaning issues like this. DF does, but he lives on his own and has never been the one to clean.

I don't know how close you are to your DPs, but with my mum, certainly, I could sit down and explain this to her nicely. (It wouldn't happen with her because she has a fantastic cleaner in every week, but....) Can you not just sit down and say,

'Look, DB is a bit worried about the floors because DN will be crawling. I know you have refitted the kitchen and it looks great, but obviously that is not the same as cleaning. It is his PFB, so just to make him feel comfortable, do you think you could make sure the floors are super-clean?'

I know it is delicate but if they are your parents can you not say this.

[Allinabinbag]

I would put my foot down about the mice and let the rest go. Ok, scrunched up smelly teatowels aren't nice, but they are fine, you are fine, and the chances of anyone getting anything really terrible is quite remote. They do clean the loo, it's just not done with bleach so it's not clean to your standards.

If you eat out in restaurants, then let it go. Some places may be wonderful, but I've worked in enough kitchen restaurants not to worry about what gets wiped on a cloth. Millions of people are not that fussy about chopping-boards etc (I am!), I've seen friends prepare meat, then veggies on the same board and wondered if I will live to tell the tale, but although it might increase your chances of problems, I wouldn't personally worry about it (unless you are not going to let your child eat at other people's houses as well).

Things I would complain abour/not be able to tolerate: mice and rats, very dirty toilets, pink chicken not cooked thoroughly, leaving meat out for ages after cooking (more than a few hours), my mother in law's trick of cooking out of date meat for ages when it clearly smells off. But people did live before refrigerators and my husband and his family all survived pretty much most of this stuff and it's much worse than the odd stain on an otherwise clean toilet.

[DaisySteiner]

It sounds pretty grim, but not nearly as bad as my friend's house, where I regularly see rats in the garden a few feet from where the children are playing I've also witnessed her wipe up urine using a dishcloth which has then been rinsed and reused . However my friend has managed to raise 3 children without them coming to any harm, so I think your niece will be OK! I think that it's going to be very difficult for you to say anything to them without causing huge offence (nobody likes to be told their house is dirty) so personally I would keep out of it. I do sympathise though - my mum just doesn't seem to see some things like mould in the shower, limescale in the toilet, really out of date food in the fridge etc. I find it disgusting but just have to bite my tongue

[revolutionscoop]

A good friend of mine is a very clever bacteriologist and she once told me there's nothing more lethal in a household than a dirty teatowell or dishcloth. There's bound to be some info about this on google; perhaps you could find some & print it out. Then, when next visiting, you could say something like, "oh, I just read the most alarming article about dish cloths/ tea towels/ mice " and then show her the print out if she seems unconvinced?

[SenoritaViva]

The floor has been cleaned twice since January? I thought I was being an utter slattern recently because I didn't get around to mopping our floor for 4 weeks (although I regularly swept and wiped any stains etc.) I thought that was hideous, now I see why your feet are getting black, after 1 month it didn't affect my socks (probably because I was sweeping). I honestly think that is HIDEOUS and I'd class myself as a pretty untidy person who struggles to keep on top of things. I would not allow my baby to crawl there.

[FabbyChic]

2,3 and 5 are anal.

I hate brown toilets and they can be cleaned with caustic soda. However if they regularly use bleach they are not dirty.

The dishcloth? Mine lives like that and my house is spotless. I bleach it once a week.

Some people do leave food uncovered overnight and so what so long as they don't eat it the next day.

The mice are a problem.

If you are that concerned mop their kitchen floor once a week.

[FabbyChic]

Oh and 7 is so fucking anal it's unbelievable.