Opinions please: worried about the state of my parents' house, is there a problem?

[AnalAboutCleaning]

Namechanged for this.

I'm a bit worried about my parents' house. It's always been messy, and I know my DH thinks I am a bit anal about cleaning and tidying our place, so I just don't really know what's 'normal'. I know some things are proper issues, but others maybe I'm just being precious about? Basically I want to get a sense of how much each of these things would bother you and whether you think I need to say something/do something. It's very hard to talk to my mum about these issues so often I just end up cleaning up when I am there, but I don't live near home. My dad doesn't seem to get it either - he does very little housework. Part of the problem is, I have a baby niece and she will be crawling soon. My parents would be devastated if she got ill, and are expecting to do lots of looking after grandchildren - but I don't know if this will happen if the house stays as it is. Please let me know what you think to the following examples:

1. The kitchen floor is dirty and stick - your feet would go black after a few minutes. They have a new wood floor so they ask me to take my heels off (they wear flat shoes, and don't remove them, so don't seem aware of the issue).
   
   
2. Toilets are white, and stained brown inside. They buy eco bleach - does it not work? Or do they not use it enough?
   
   
3. The fridge always smells. Spills are not wiped up and things go rotten inside. I don't know if this is just unpleasant or a health issue?
   
   
4. Mice. They insist the mice are gone, but one room constantly has droppings in it. I don't know what to do: they say no mice get caught in traps but clearly they are there! Is this a health issue if other rooms don't have obvious signs of mice?
   
   
5. Dishes are left uncovered overnight - eg., poured-off cooking fat, leftover salad dressing. Sometimes if flies fall in they are thrown out but I worry my mum doesn't always notice or look clearly to see!
   
   
6. The cloth for washing dishes is always scrunched up, wet, after use. Needless to say it soon starts to smell. Do you always rinse yours out and let it dry, or is that me being anal? How often do you wash them? Mum claims they are washed once a week - I don't think this is enough and also doubt it really is that often. Teatowels - again, they're often stiff and smelly, how often do you wash?
   
   
7. The kitchen (newly re-done, they're very proud of it so it's hard to criticize) has surfaces that run all around, so the draining board and worktop are all the same surface. Chopping boards are used for eg. raw meat, but not always very precisely, and I'd be amazed if there's not cross-contamination. How likely would you be to get ill from this?
   
   Thanks if you made it this far!

[mathanxiety]

Maybe you could ask him how your mum used to go about cleaning the bathroom or the kitchen?

[mathanxiety]

Whosgotmyeyebrows -- maybe your dad is doing what he remembers seeing your mum do and doesn't realise there's much more to it that just that?

An aunt of mine never let her family see her doing any dirty work like cleaning the bathroom or mopping floors, anything that required buckets, rubber gloves and kneeling on the floor, or dealing with the toilet. Reason she gave was that the males in the house would never have any respect for her if they saw her doing work like that. She got her attitude from the house she grew up in where there were maids to handle those chores. The result I would have predicted was that they would never clean those places when they were out on their own because as far as they could see they lived in a house with an amazing self cleaning bathroom..

[blewit]

Having worked in a nursing home, this is fine. They will be far better in this state here than they would elsewhere. If you're really worried go in (or pay for) a deep clean every now and then. But leave then where they are happy if they are moderately coping.

[drivemecrazy63]

shudders at loo mat ( remembering the Mn discussion on Pi* mats )all they do is collect pee but agree with what your saying musieB* im just kiddig

[MusieB]

Op I know exactly how you feel. I could have written all that about my ILs place (and worse: carpet in the downstairs loo was ancient and smelly when I first met DH 20 years ago, still there and no loo mat ever, salmon left in warm kitchen overnight and served up for lunch next day, ditto Xmas turkey). They are not particularly old either - they have always lived like this and think it is entirely normal. I am pretty anal too and find all this an ordeal, but DH's family are very strong characters and think my "fussiness" is pathetic/ridiculous. We have stayed there a lot ever since DD was a baby and none of us has ever got ill from it. So I have decided that when I'm there I just have to live like they do and not worry about it.

[LIZS]

and maybe they each assume the other is doing more than they are.

[drivemecrazy63]

i am blind as a bat so sorry about typos

[LIZS]

Actaully no , and anyway my mum is far more scrupulous than I am ! But if there were any chance their mental health perhaps wasn't what is had been then maybe some sort of organiser might help. But if this is how they have always been then change may not come easily. Why not take some slippers next time you go round and claim you/dc picked up something nasty last time you went barefoot there.

[drivemecrazy63]

the tea towel thing i couldnt stand i use a clean one every day sometimes two in a day the mice thigs a worry id rig the local council the pest control guy with thems the cheapest he can advise best way to perminately stay rid the house general clenliness is up to them as they are not elderly they obviously like it that way but when you take baby id ring in advance and say look mum tbh babyX had allergies (good excuse) could you make sure you wash all the floors with zaflora (really strong disinfectant) before we come hopefully the allergies excuse will make her clean before you com or alternativly ask can they stay with you.

[ScarlettIsWalking]

I wouldn't leave a crawling baby in a house with mouse droppings and a sticky floor. In fact I wouldn't leave a 5 yo in the circs you describe.

[AnalAboutCleaning]

LIZS - seriously? Would you actually write up a system list to 'remind' your 50-something mum had to do cleaning she's never thought necessary in her life? Mine would go mad. I'm not trying to be bitchy, just amazed you have the sort of relationship with your parents where you could do that.

FWIW, the wood floor isn't in the kitchen, it's in the hall beside it, but she's not keen on my putting shoes on in the kitchen and slipping them off every time I go out into the hall (understandably; she doesn't want us to forget).

WhoseGot - well, what I think I will do is to pass on all the info. on this thread about bacteria in the unwashed cloths and the mice - maybe try to convince my dad his recent health problems may not be helped by it all. And I'm going to suggest that babies' immune systems aren't as robust as ours. But after that I think it's really up to my brother - with luck, he will also manage to tackle this.

[LIZS]

Perhaps they aren't sure how best to clean the wooden kitchen floor. I don't mop ours very often but have found the Vileda cloth mop better than a broom to sweep, use either Pledge woodwash for a full clean and Dettol floor wipes or Mr Sheen spray in between to fresh it up. pil's do the fat thing and it makes me heave but ok as long as I don't have to eat it . Teatowels etc get done here at least once a week on a hot wash. Likewise fridge gets cleared and wiped when we put in the big shop. tbh they sound as if they have lost the plot a bit , could you help them draw up a system to remind them what needs doing.

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

So has anyone got any ideas on how to broach it? I posted a couple of times about my own dad having the same problem and I have thought for years about how to bring it up but really don't want to hurt his feelings.

[revolutionscoop]

But spud, it isn't just about the op's parents; they are wanting/expecting to babysit their new baby dgc?

[Piggyleroux]

They sound exactly like my parents. Mine are 62 and 63 so not elderly.

My mum has never ever been able to get on top of housework. When I was younger, I was always helping with cleaning but the next day the place would be a state again. Hence, I never brought friends round and tbh never had any real mates all through school. I feel that my childhood home being a constant tip has made me quite anal about cleaning and my own house is reasonably tidy and I try to do some cleaning every day. I have also married a man who hates mess. It took me ages to introduce him to my parents

When I moved out, I went round two or three times a week to help her blitz the place but it always ended up as it was before. Now I have ds 16 mo, I don't help as I have enough to do.

Sadly, I think that this is just how some people are and housework is not a priority for them. Try not to lose sleep over it. They probably have great immune systems if that's any consolation!

Best of luck and hugs

[spudulika]

Your parents sound very unhygienic. Like me. Bet they've got iron guts.


Honestly - it's not your business unless they make themselves so I'll you have to come and look after them, in which case you're allowed to comment.

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

Fabbychic Still busting to know how you never chop food?

[WhoseGotMyEyebrows]

AnalAboutCleaning Yeah it's awful. The place had never been clean anyway. I think partially because my mum was on meds that made her in a little world of her own, partially because I think she needed glasses but wouldn't get any so I don't think she could see it.

I suppose now my dad is living by my mums old standards of cleaning. It's seems though that there are some things that it doesn't even occur to him to do. For eg, he's quite obssessive about the washing up being done and the ironing, even if there is only one plate in the sink and only pants to iron! He also always keeps the living room hoovered, but then everything else is just left. It's like he can't see it or something.

I've been wanting to say something for years but don't know how to approach it. I really don't want to hurt his feelings and he's been doing his best to cope. My mum always looked after him and did everything so he has had to learn from scratch and he is NOT a quick learner.

I would be gutted if someone came into my house and commented on how dirty it was so don't want to do that to my dad. (He can't afford a cleaner)

I'll be watching wih interest to see if anyone offers some genius solutions.

[mathanxiety]

I worry about the denial issue here -- your dad thinking that the mice are there because it's an old house for instance, and your mum denying that 35ish hours a week is a full time job.

Hostility to having a cleaner in can signal a big problem. It shows that the issue is not just sloppy habits, but there is stress involved and some shame too, some sort of emotional investment in the house that has gone too far, a desire to maintain personal control.

Is there some sort of grief in their lives? It seems they have gone to some trouble to make their home inviting to family and friends -- do they miss having a full house? Is this why they are so determined to be babysitters?

Is there some reason they use the Eco stuff for the loo despite the fact that it is not making a dent in the stains? Are they a bit rigid in their beliefs and thoughts?

This may seem a silly question but is your mum a perfectionist? Perfectionism can stop people from getting started on a task like cleaning. People with serious perfectionism issues won't settle for a good enough job, a clean enough house. They are terrified of getting it wrong and won't start -- as a result the housework piles up until you need to call in a fumigator and exterminator.

Is there any evidence of hoarding or not making decisions about getting rid of old clothes they no longer wear, old kitchen appliances of junk in the shed or garage? Or are they allowing the household tasks and the dirt to pile up, thus preserving the fantasy that they will get around to them one day?

[Pandemoniaa]

I was going to suggest there's a generational issue at the back of some of this but since I'm in my 50s and would never, ever, tolerate bowls of fat adorned with drowned flies - unlike my former MIL - it's more about personal standards of cleanliness.

I'm by no means obsessive although I can't be doing with dirty kitchens, lavs or floors. I can deal with dust and I actually think that it is healthier to be exposed to what my grandmother described as "a peck of dirt" but it very much depends what sort of peck!

So, apart from the mice which clearly are a bigger and continuous problem that needs sorting out properly, the main warning flags for me would actually be the chopping boards and kitchen cloths. Both of which can seethe with germs if not dealt with correctly. I'd be very concerned about rotting food in the fridge too, especially if all this food was just jumbled up in there contaminating everything else.

I don't have washable kitchen cloths, I use J-cloths and replace them regularly (like twice a week) and in the meantime will swish them around in a solution of Milton. If I wiped down a chopping board used for raw meat then the J-cloth would go straight into the bin. Teatowels are changed twice a week. The kitchen floor is washed (with a disinfectant chaser!) a minimum of once a week (I confess now to having a cleaner) but often gets another couple of moppings during that week depending on spills, mud, etc.

It is difficult to start trying to impose your own standards of cleanliness on others and I'm never quite sure that you can. My former MIL kept the majority of her house clean but the kitchen would have been condemned by environmental health. However, none of us risked her wrath by suggesting this. When my dcs were little, I kept them well away from her kitchen floor but actually this wasn't difficult because kitchen floors aren't necessarily the best places to crawl around if people are cooking.

[MrsFlittersnoop]

Just wanted to add though - we have not had mice in the house for over 30 years - we got a cat which sorted that problem out. She is also very good about not leaving food out/uncovered, or dirty dishes lying arund. I'd be worried about flies around the compst bin too.

Don't mention food rotting at the back of the fridge and eating out of date leftovers though... She has a separate kitchen to us, and constant vigilance is required. She's getting forgetful, so I can easily cull the contents of her fridge before stuff starts moving around!

Your brother really will have to set the boundaries here. My brother and SIL managed somehow when their DDs were tiny, but they used to take over all the cooking when they came to stay with Mum, and I suspect they thoroughly disinfected the kitechen first.

[MrsFlittersnoop]

Mt mother, who is now in her 80s, lived like this for years after my Dad died. She is never ill however , and no-one has ever suffered food poisoning from eating out of her kitchen, even DS and my 2 nieces when they were tiny babies/crawling toddlers. We live with her now and I just chuck her all cloths into a boil wash after a couple of days when they start getting manky. I also have a dishwasher so the chopping boards etc get put in every day and sterilised. We have had a new kitechen installed and we have a cleaner every week.

I've come to the reluctant conclusion that it probably doesn't matter very much. Mum's kitchen was vile when we moved in 2 years ago, and God knows I have pretty low housekeeping standards but we have gradually sorted it out.

The irony is, my mother used to complain bitterly about HER MIL's (my gran's) standards of housekeeping, saying her kitchen was so filthy mum refused to take me there to visit when I was a baby .

[AnalAboutCleaning]

Thanks all - very helpful.

WhoseGot - that sounds depressing, sorry to hear about it.

madmomma - yes, I will eventually just pass it on over to my brother to deal with. You're right it's his problem - but I do see where he's coming from, it's his precious first born and he's worried, and now I'm worrying about their health too. Difficult.

math - thanks for taking the trouble to give such a detailed reply, you're very kind! To reply: my mum is I think depressed, but her mental health is a whole other big area. It's certainly not new, and we've never managed to get her to see a doctor. They don't really have friends round (once in a blue moon), but they have spent a lot of time and money extending the house and updating the inside so that family can visit - I think they are disappointed this hasn't already happened more, which is partly why I want to work out how best to tackle these issues, which may be part of the problem. To be honest, DH and I would want to visit more if we weren't expected to share a mouse-riddled single bed - so I can only imagine what other less close family members feel like.

Cleaner - mum would never. Until a couple of weeks ago she worked about 30-35 hours a week but sees very much as part time and doesn't understand why the housekeeping is hard work (she cooks everything from scratch, supermarkets are half an hour and more away - to name a couple of reasons!). She'd feel she had utterly failed if she had a cleaner.

As to babysitting - she couldn't kneel when she had us, either. She managed. It is worse now, but I doubt she would find it too hard, especially with my dad around. She is very, very keen to get involved.


I feel awful because reading these posts (I am not criticizing at all, just noticing this), people are responding as if my parents are old. I guess they are - but I wasn't quite ready for it.

[halcyondays]

I think most of those things you've mentioned are a bit worrying, and I say that as someone who has pretty low standards re housework. For instance I am rather lax on things like changing sheets, mopping floors and dusting, but I am fussy about clean dishcloths and chopping boards. I would never leave food out overnight, uncovered, and then eat it.

[mathanxiety]

1. The kitchen floor is dirty and sticky
   -- I would worry about this with a baby possibly crawling over it.
   
   
2. Toilets are white, and stained brown inside
   -- not an issue, but are they willing to babyproof the toilet/keep the bathroom door closed so the crawling baby can't go in?
   
   
3. The fridge always smells. Spills are not wiped up and things go rotten inside. I don't know if this is just unpleasant or a health issue?
   -- This is both unpleasant and a health issue. Many older people suffer from minor stomach upsets and diarrhoea because of inadequately washed plates, forks, etc., as well as eating food that they should discard, just because they were brought up to the mantra 'waste not want not'.
   
   
4. Mice -- this is a huge issue
   and they need to clean up the entire house, and keep it clean, in order to solve it. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the size or age of the house. They are there because they have got in and they are multiplying/not leaving because they have access to food and water. There is far more involved than just catching the odd mouse here and there. Asthma symptoms and allergies can be worsened by exposure to mouse droppings. The smell of their urine and faeces will attract other rodents to the house. They will also chew wiring so pose a fire danger. Dried mouse faeces and urine should not be vacuumed. You will need a thorough professional cleaning from an exterminator. Please tell your parents you are hiring an exterminator asap., and do not take no for an answer. They are probably inundated with mice.
   
   
5. Dishes are left uncovered overnight
   -- this is a problem if they then eat the leftovers, and often older people do this because they don't want to 'waste' food or scraps.
   
   
6. The cloth for washing dishes is always scrunched up, wet, after use. Needless to say it soon starts to smell.
   -- This is a problem imo, because there is often food residue in cloths, and bacteria are constantly being recirculated onto plates, countertops, etc. The dishcloth issue is the same.
   
   
7. The kitchen (newly re-done, they're very proud of it so it's hard to criticize) has surfaces that run all around, so the draining board and worktop are all the same surface. Chopping boards are used for eg. raw meat, but not always very precisely, and I'd be amazed if there's not cross-contamination. How likely would you be to get ill from this?
   -- Quite likely if they don't wash the chopping board and proceed directly to use it for chopping veggies or potatoes or whatever. Same goes for using the same knife without washing it.
   
   I think your parents may be depressed or suffering a bit from early signs of hoarding (unwilling to part with leftover food, make decisions about cleaning and tidying). Are they absolutely dead set against having a cleaner in? Why? Are they defensive about the state of the house? Do they have friends who visit?
   
   I would not allow them to babysit at all, tbh. Not just because of the state of the house (which sounds dreadful to me) but because of your mother's bad knee and potential mobility problems. If she can't kneel down then she can't deal with a crawling baby. But even without a bad knee, the state of the house would mean no baby of mine would ever touch the floor or eat a crumb of food there.