to be disgusted and furious with the attitude of this social worker WWYD?

[inatrance]

I am so angry about this I can't think straight so would appreciate any thoughts to help me know what to do next. Apologies in advance for huge post.

I am friends with one of the mums at dd's school who has a child who was in her class. Originally (a couple of years ago) she turned up at school with her face a complete mess (black eyes, bruises) which was why we became friends as I obviously suspected she was being abused and engineered a conversation where she confided that this was the case.

Her P is a vicious, evil bully and has put her through the sheer hell of emotional (and sometimes physical) torture for years and I have supported her as much as I can in the time that I have known her and encouraged her to involve Women's Aid. They have recently allocated her a support worker.

The other huge problem she has is that her P is a heavy drinker and has encouraged her to also develop an alcohol problem. He has used this to threaten her and control her (telling her it's her own fault he treats her so badly because she drinks, tells her that she will lose her son because of it etc) and this is part of the reason that she has been too terrified to leave and has become trapped in the cycle of alcohol dependency. She has tried (and succeeded) repeatedly to stop drinking and has done brilliantly, going to the local Drug and Alcohol dependency unit daily, seeing the D & A counsellor and getting a job. Every time she does, and she starts regaining her strength and independence, her P steps up the abuse and intimidation, often in front of their son and knocks her back down until she is back in a mess.

Only the shit hit the fan a while ago as someone reported that she had turned up at school drunk. Social services got involved along with the school and have been unsympathetic to the other issues at play and have made it ALL about her and her drink problem, encouraged by her H who has been invited to meetings to discuss my friend, which of course has played right into his hands in convincing her that it's her own fault that she is being abused.

Until today I honestly thought this was because they were unaware of the facts.

I went to pick up DD and saw her P with their son and a woman who I have seen my friend with recently. I had a horrible feeling and sent her a text to see if she was ok. She sent a message back saying no and asked me to call her.

I rang her and she was in a state, drunk and sobbing down the phone. He had attacked her last week and the neighbours had rang the police, her P was arrested and held then released on bail. I went round and she was covered in huge bruises with a massive black eye. He had attacked her in front of their son.

Yesterday the police and ss had turned up and told her that as she was drinking her son could not be returned to her and he is now at her 'friends' house. I say 'friend' because this is the woman who I had earlier seen with her H and son.
She had no contact numbers or names for anyone from either the police or ss so I spent the next couple of hours trying to find someone who could tell me what the hell was going on.

I eventually got through to the social worker who had been dealing with it and she was incredibly hostile from the word go. I was polite and professional and tried to explain that the reason I was calling was to find out what was happening for my friend and to inform them that this violent man who also has a (worse) drink problem than my friend and who has proven himself to be dangerous had been spotted with their son and to find out whether they were aware of this.

She would NOT let me finish and kept talking over me and when I tried to explain that my friend was legitimately concerned and said that I had known her for a couple of years and seen what he has put her through, she then turned it back on me and began questioning why I had let this go on if I knew what was happening!! When I said about the P drinking she asked me if I personally had ever seen him drunk, implying either that my friend was lying or that it was six of one and half a dozen of the other. She basically made her contempt clear for my friend and was utterly unsympathetic as to WHY my friend is drinking and showed seemingly no awareness for the complicated nature of the situation.

When I politely but firmly asked her to let me finish (I repeated this several times) she said that she was ending the conversation, then she put the phone down on me!!!

I could understand it if I was shouting at her, swearing or being abusive but I swear I was not. I was being polite and professional but assertive and I still cant' believe she was unprofessional enough to actually hang up on me. I had thought my friend was blaming herself when she said that ss thought it was all her fault as well, but it appears that she was right.

I did also speak to the police who were brilliant and I think there is a multi agency meeting tomorrow to discuss the child and what to do next. I am still fuming about the unprofessional way she spoke to me and about her whole attitude and I'm stuck as to the best thing to do. Should I complain? Will this make matters worse? I'm getting more help for her tomorrow but it seems that ss have already decided who is the 'bad' parent and for my friend it seems that her worst fears have come true.

Thanks if you have managed to read this far, any insight would be much appreciated.

[lisad123]

they will be assessing dad's care of DS, but this can be done while he has has access via friend supersiving. Currently they can only do so much in short time, but they arent stupid they will know about the abuse, and sadly just because he beats his wife, it isnt an idication of weather he beats his son. He has properly hidden his drink issues well.
Is this friend capable of looking after DS? or is she too under his spell?

And yes SW was right to ask why you didnt call sooner?? Your first thought should have been that poor boy, who has spent way too long living with parents who drink and watching his mother be beaten. If you had reported it earlier maybe they could have got help sooner.

[lisad123]

they will be assessing dad's care of DS, but this can be done while he has has access via friend supersiving. Currently they can only do so much in short time, but they arent stupid they will know about the abuse, and sadly just because he beats his wife, it isnt an idication of weather he beats his son. He has properly hidden his drink issues well.
Is this friend capable of looking after DS? or is she too under his spell?

And yes SW was right to ask why you didnt call sooner?? Your first thought should have been that poor boy, who has spent way too long living with parents who drink and watching his mother be beaten. If you had reported it earlier maybe they could have got help sooner.

[oohjarWhatsit]

She does have a reason - the social worker was rude, didn't listen and hung up on her.

wow, you must have been on the extension listening in

or maybe, just maybe, the OP is telling us what she thinks will gain her the most sympathy/hugs

[lesley33]

Vibrant - The two aren't linked. But don't you think a complaint about the SW at this stage would just be seen as the friend and possibly mother focussing on other issues rather than the child?

It would make more sense to find out if P has supervised or unsupervised access to child. If P has unsupervised access, then yes make a complaint urgently about this saying that OP tried to tell SW why P shouldn't have access, but the SW talked over her and didn't listen.

[Vibrant]

Eh? The op has described the SW talking over her, she repeatedly had to ask her to let her finish (in my book it's rude not let someone have their say) and she put the phone down on her. If we don't go by what someone is posting, then all we'd be putting in response is things like "well I wasn't there and I don't know if you're embellishing or being economical with the truth, so I can't comment".

And I don't think she's trying to elicit hugs or sympathy, she'd like some insights into what happened and is wondering whether to complain.

[Birdsgottafly]

Vibrant- the OP was making excuses for her friends drinking, that is not the concern of the SW, if the reason is the DP and she won't leave the DP. If the OP would not listen to the SW and was giving irrelevent information she had no choice but to hang up.

The OP contacted her friend and the friend was drunk, people are very different when drunk and sober and i would think that the OP is not being told the truth.

She is not that good a friend because the 'victim' didn't phone her when the violence was taking place, or ask her to take her DS to school or pick him up because she was drunk.

She is doing her friend no favours by seeing her as a victim, she has choices, but is not making them in the best interests of the child.

The OP hasn't been the one the 'friend' called when they were removing the child, the OP had to phone the friend to find that out (and as said the friend was drunk). The friend hasn't given her permission when sober to get involved.

The OP may have just wanted to portray her friends victim status to the SW and quite rightly the SW wouldn't listen, that is not the issue, the SW doesn't know the OP, she may be a shitstirrer poking her nose in, if the friend wants the OP as her advocate then she will listen.

If you were being investigated by any public body would you want anyone to be able to phone and their opinion taken on board, especially as the SW has visited with the parents and child and the OP has never been there.

[lesley33]

Vibrant - I agree we have to trust what the OP is saying. But with any complaint you have to think about what you want the outcome to be i.e. what are you trying to achieve? IMO the OP would not achieve anything by making a complaint about the SW.

The SW could easily say - well the OP was constantly trying to justify why her friend behaved the way she did and was trying to make me, the SW see her friend as a victim. there was absolutely no mention of the needs of the child.

After a long rant where I tried to get her to see the needs of the child e.g. asking questions about if she knew the situation why hadn't she contacted anyone so the child could be safer - I put the phone down. TBH I was wasting my time listening to a long rant with the OP who wouldn't consider the needs of the child.

I am not judging this telephone call about who was right or wrong, but just pointing out that with the facts given by the OP, the phone call could be presented in a very different way.

That is why I think there is no point complaining and could be slightly harmful in that the OP and possibly the mother are focussing on the mother as the victim and not the needs of the child.

[Birdsgottafly]

There has been much criticism by posters on other threads that family opinion of their EX's has been listened to by SS, when the family don't have regular contact and used against them, so quite rightly third parties have to be investigated as wether their opinion counts.

The SW has to keep an open mind until that is put in place.

The 'friend' can nominate the OP to speak but remember that the friend is allowing the DP to beat her infront of her son and still stays, she is choosing to put the DS in that situation.

From a CP POV, if the friend has dragged her son through this for years and has not considered the situation bad enough to end it or the OP hasn't phoned SS to end it on the childs behalf, they are quite right to question wether they are now telling the truth.

[feckwit]

Have you actually witnessed the partner being abusive?

Have you witnesssed him drunk?

I only ask because it is very easy for somebdoy with an alcohol dependency to hide behind a reasoning for it, could there not be a possibility that he is innocent in all this?

I know you say she called the police and he was arrested etc last week but do you know if this is actually true?

I would write a detailed letter with your concerns if you have any evidence to back it up, otherwise it all seems like hearsay from your friend...

As somebody who has worked for scoial services, I would be surprised if a child was removed from the acre of one aprent and placed with another if the pther was deemed to also be a riwk to the child. It sounds like the child is with a friend - do you know for sure your friend saw her husband with the child and the person they are staying with? Could she just be trying to pull on your emotional heartstrings?

[feckwit]

sorry, typed on phone and messed it all up!

[Birdsgottafly]

The OP should be looking to empower her friend, not find a hundred and 1reasons why she is allowing herself and her DS to be treated like this (and also treating her DS in a harmful way).

We do women no favours by painting them as passive victims with no choice or way out.

[Vibrant]

I did say to leave the complaint for a bit.

I agree Birds about not painting the friend as a victim, and do understand what you're saying. And I know exactly what people with addictions are like when they have used and when they haven't. But she describes this SW as being hostile from the start, and that she tried to explain her reason for calling

"tried to explain that the reason I was calling was to find out what was happening for my friend and to inform them that this violent man who also has a (worse) drink problem than my friend and who has proven himself to be dangerous had been spotted with their son and to find out whether they were aware of this."

And I'm not saying that the public body has to take everything that is reported to them on board - of course I'm not. There's a lot that gets reported that is just plain malicious. But there are times when helpful information does get reported, and unless you hear what is being said and make a judgement then you'll never know.

[Birdsgottafly]

That was what i picked up on, the 'friend' is the one who has been witnessed as drunk.

There are three 'indicaters' that 'flag' this up; Addiction problems, DV and the lack of parental ability to act in the best interest of the child.

There may actually be more for all the OP knows.

[Birdsgottafly]

That is what the multi-agency meeting is for, the police, GP, HV etc, School and SS, will have the facts going back years and will decide based on that. I think that asking someone who claims to know the situation why they have done nothing to protect the child is reasonable. It is the only way that child neglect/abuse stops, if the public get involved.

The friend will know what is happening, she was drunk when the OP contacted her, i have had friends with alcohol problems and they remember nothing when drunk, i think the OP is being naive.

[hester]

The SW was rude to you, and only you can decide whether it's worth putting in a complaint about that.

The really important thing, though, is whether you have information that is valuable to those deciding what should happen to this poor child. I agree with others that you should put it in writing asap. But I think it will be a waste of time trying to argue that your friend should not be judged an inadequate parent. It may well be worth telling them what the dad has been up to.

[inatrance]

Thank you all for your responses it has been immensely helpful to get others perspectives on this. I'm not going to complain about the social worker, though I do feel that she acted unprofessionally by putting the phone down on me when the reason for my call was so important. I did of course get my friend to speak to them first to verify that she gave her permission for me to speak on her behalf.

It has become even more urgent that my concerns were taken into account with today's developments and I feel sick every time I think about it and I am desperately concerned for her son.

Social services have been involved with the family for probably the last year, due to the school incident. I have not reported this myself as I honestly thought that she would get the support she needed from ss if they knew about his abuse. Unfortunately he (like most abusive men) paints himself as the perfect husband and father and my friend as a disgusting drunk and it seems that ss didn't seem interested in the DV but focused entirely on my friends drinking. If you met her you would know she is telling the truth and is incapable of manipulation. She is not very articulate at the best of times and he runs rings around her verbally. I have seen the bruises on her arms, and listened to her cry, though he's not beaten her like this since I met her and most of his abuse has been verbal, emotional and sexual.

I am in no way condoning her alcohol abuse and I do agree that the child is best placed away from her for the moment until she can stay sober. What concerned me yesterday was that the man that left her battered like this was considered safe to be around his son, when she was not allowed to see him! HE is the one who is likely to harm his son and the sw did tell me that he had agreed to stay away from his ds, (which he of course was not doing) but she didn't seem to care about this. My call to ss yesterday was to make them aware that this man is dangerous and that the DV is the main issue to be concerned about and is far more of a threat to the child than my friends drinking at this moment.

While I am sorry that he has hurt her like this, I am very glad that the police have finally got involved, thank god for her neighbours. I've not seen too much of her recently as I've not long had a baby so she thought I'd got enough on my plate and didn't want to burden me. I've also seen her walking from school with one of the other mums and was glad she had another friend. It is this woman who I saw myself walking from school yesterday with my friends p and ds. I don't think that this woman is to be trusted due to this.

I went to her house this morning and while I was there the family support worker from the school called round. THANK GOD she did, she was fantastic. My friend has recently started to confide some of what has been going on so she was aware of what her p was like.

The police had said yesterday that they couldn't enforce the bail conditions unless my friend made a statement so with a lot of persuasion from me and the school worker she agreed to go and do it.

It took a long time and was horrifically traumatic for my friend and took a lot of courage. Her statement made for chilling reading and seeing the extent of it was heartbreaking. She loves her son so much and it was only the thought of getting him back that made her do it.

When we got out of the police station there was a message on her phone from ss to say that they had had a meeting (not quite as multi agency as I thought, just the police and ss) and they had decided to place the child with his father!! This is the man that truly doesn't give a shit about this child and has no time for him at all. He says vicious things to the ds about his mum constantly and I have no doubt that he is messing his head up and screwing him up as I type.

I am horrified. This decision was based on his police statement, though quite how he has managed to paint her as the problem when she is black and blue is anyone's guess. The school worker was just as shocked and appalled by this decision, as was her WA support worker. She advised seeing a solicitor urgently which she is doing tomorrow.

How can this happen? I can't believe they have done this and just hope that once they see her statement they will reconsider and put him somewhere else, at least till she gets sorted. She is also going to the docs to get the drugs that make you sick if you drink. I just pray that ss will realise they have made a huge mistake once the facts emerge. I just don't know what else I can do.

[ToothbrushThief]

Drinking and staying in an abusive environment is not right. The SW cannot talk to you although you are well meaning (but misinformed quite possibly).

I know you're trying to support this woman but actually she has to stop drinking and leave this man.

No further help would be required then?

You might be facilitating a child to stay in an abusive drunken environment

[ToothbrushThief]

x posted and missed last post

Can see your concerns :(

Grim for you

[TottWriter]

What you can do is carry on doing what you are doing - be there for your friend and help fight her corner. It sounds like you are an excellent friend, and that the DV will be taken seriously now that other people are involved - remember that the decision to place the child with his father was made prior to the people at that meeting being aware of her statement about the DV. A report that serious HAS to be investigated, and if she is as visibly bruised as you say it should be pretty obvious. Any statements you can make in support will also be listened to - you've been hearing her talk about this for some time, after all.

I hope that things will change for the better for her now that she has made her statement.

[inatrance]

Maryz I knew a woman like that too. A friend of mine went through hell and lost his son and I know men can be victims too and the social worker doesn't know the full story and has to act accordingly.

My friend couldn't lie to save her life and her p is of the devious manipulative alcoholic type you describe. He is clever enough not to appear publicly drunk but drinks constantly every day at home. While I have known her my friend has spent sometimes months sober and has been totally committed to stopping despite his relentless daily mental abuse. It has reached horrific proportions of mental and sexual abuse before she can take no more and cracks and drinks.

Believe me when I say this man is truly a monster and deserves to be put in prison for what he has done to her.

And now he has their son with no supervision. My blood is like ice knowing what he is capable of.

[inatrance]

Still so worried, bumping in hope for any advice regarding my last posts.

[Sewmuchtodo]

Surely is yesterdays meeting was between the police and SS then a further emergency meeting should have been held either last night or today to take yesterdays events with the police into consideration? Your friend (and the school) must pursue this if there is the slightest chance that this man is violent.

Has the child been attending school this week? and have social cervices spoken to the child on his own, independant of both parents?

You can ofcourse contact your local MP for further assistance if you feel the police and SS have left this child in a vaunerable situation.

[CrapolaDeVille]

And some say the Police aren't misogynist. I think you could easily phone Women's aid on your friends behalf...

[sunshineandbooks]

Whether your friend is 'just' an alcoholic or an abused alcoholic, SS's main concern is about the child and the child's best interests, which is at it should be.

The vast majority of SWs are brilliant, and they do a very good job with increasingly limited resources. However, in cases where there are several issues going on, they can get it wrong because they are ultimately human and it depends which issues are staring them in the face and which are more obvious. Alcohol was the reason they were first involved and the mother clearly has ongoing alcohol problems. That's serious enough in itself for them to consider the child at risk from the mother and remove.

Abuse is a hidden issue and when it is brought up for the first time once the child has been removed, it can look suspicious, especially coming from an alcoholic who, as someone said earlier, are noted for their manipulative behaviour. However, in this case the allegations about the father are very pertinent to the child's best interests and should not be ignored. Do not allow yourself to be fobbed off and make sure you bring it to SS's attention in written, verifiable form. It is not your job to work out if she is telling the truth or whether she's a convincing liar. It is down to SS to investigate. This child should not be placed with someone who poses a potential risk.

Furthermore, SS also have to think about the longer-term future of the child. From the OP (which I am taking at face value), the mother sounds as though she would be a perfectly ok mother if she stays sober and can keep the partner away. Assuming she can do this, rehoming the child with the mother is a far better outcome for the child than going into local authority care. SS place a high priority on keeping families together and they should examine this option. To do this they need to have a complete picture which includes the abuse. They can help your friend to explore legal avenues for keeping the partner away and even get her on treatment programmes for alcohol dependency if they think a good outcome is possible. For this reason I think it is vital that the OP raises her concerns again. In writing. The mother ultimately has final responsibility for her behaviour but that doesn't mean she has to do it without help and support.