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AIBU?

to ask if you agree with the teacher's strike upcoming

389 replies

AuntiePickleBottom · 22/06/2011 22:03

i am on the fence about it, due to not understanding pensions.

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chibi · 22/06/2011 22:42

Cos if you mean they got extra pay/more time off/free faberge eggs/gold ingots well somrone forgot to tell my HT

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babybythesea · 22/06/2011 22:43

From my own experience within my family, me and my DH both work in the private sector. We put 5% of our salary into a private pension scheme. We both earn a middle-low salary so couldn't afford much more.
My parents were both teachers. They paid 7% of their salary into a pension scheme that they had to join (there was no opt out option). My mum paid this until she hit a certain wage band when her contributions went up (she was made Head of a primary school so it wasn't a massive wage but enough to justify increased contributions). At 67, she is still paying into it - her contributions started when she was 21. My sister has just qualified as a reception teacher and also pays 7% of her salary into a pension scheme. So, they already pay more than I do. Which, in our (admittedly limited) family experience, there is a lot of s**t being talked about how the teachers need to get into line with private sector pensions - they are already asked for a higher contribution than I am.
They both voted to strike.
My Mum is angry because if the government scheme had invested her money, there would be money there for a pension. Instead, she believes that governments have used it as spending money and now there is a pension deficit. There wouldn't be one if that money had been managed responsibly by the civil servants who made the teachers pay into it. She is angry because the way it is reported makes it sound as though the tax payer funds a pension entirely - not true.
My sister is annoyed because she cannot see how putting contributions up, making someone pay for longer but giving them less at the end of it is right. Especially if you add in student debt - by the time teachers have paid back a four year degree and then paid in the kind of pension contributions being discussed, teaching becomes a profession that just doesn't pay enough. 11% or more of a salary on top of a student debt becomes unmanageable, and it's not as though teachers start on a high salary.
Plus, the idea that teaching is a cushy job for life doesn't play any more. For example, my Dad had planned to work until 65. Then a school in our town closed with the attendant loss of 7 teaching jobs. Dad took voluntary redundancy at the age of 63 - and he was the oldest member of staff to go in the cuts. He hopes that at least one young teacher in the area was spared because he chose to go instead.

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Nospringflower · 22/06/2011 22:46

There is a lot of propaganda about public sector salaries and pensions at the moment and making out that they have a cushy number - they dont. Years of crap salaries and conditions while private sector equivalents have done well and now the tories are trying to get public opinion against the public sector so that they can drive down pay and conditions.

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Saggyoldclothcatpuss · 22/06/2011 22:49

Everyone has a right to protest. But, seeing as I apparently, don't have the right to disrupt my childs education and that of their class mates by removing them from school at my own discretion, why should teachers be able to?

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AuntiePickleBottom · 22/06/2011 22:50

as i work bank hoildays, instead of having the BH off i can request the BH date any time of the year.

not sure why the teacher have it, after all the children was off school....unless they had to work it

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SloganLogan · 22/06/2011 22:50

I agree with it. Teachers pay (inflation taken into account) and working conditions have deteriorated greatly over the decades.

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chibi · 22/06/2011 22:52

teachers do not get time in lieu for bank holidays

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HidinginaHardHat · 22/06/2011 22:53

How many annual leave days per annum do teachers get?

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babybythesea · 22/06/2011 22:53

I see what you are saying, saggy.
But if everyone has the right to protest, how should teachers do this if they can't strike? The other thing is that if you take your child out, the class carries on and your child misses out on work that all the other kids do. Puts your kid at a disadvantage. If the whole class is out, the teachers then have to rearrange planning so that the material is covered anyway.

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Icoulddoitbetter · 22/06/2011 22:54

What else should the teachers do then? They are being subjected, along with the rest of the public sector, to propaganda by the current government who are determined to make us the scapegoats for the financial crisis. I doubt there'll be many teachers who won't be thinking of the impact of the action on their pupils, but they have to do something.

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Fifis25StottieCakes · 22/06/2011 22:56

Jet - The royal wedding was on a bank hol so they have a day in lieu. Ours are taking it on Monday, so the school is shut on Monday and Thursday.

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chibi · 22/06/2011 22:56

Why does it matter? We don't get paid for any holidays.

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trixymalixy · 22/06/2011 22:57

Babybythesea, your contributions might be lower, but have you compared what pension you would get as a percentage of your salary against what they get as a percentage of their salary. I bet your pension will be fractions of your salary whereas theirs will be at least half of their salary.

I keep hearing people comparing private and public contribution rates but not taking into account how much lower private sector pensions will be for the same employee rate and the fact that private sector pensions are not guaranteed.

I'm baffled that so many supposedly intelligent people have zero understanding of how pensions work!!

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Fontsnob · 22/06/2011 22:57

Out of interest, would anyone object to a work to rule instead of a strike?

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jetgirl · 22/06/2011 22:58

Hiding - none. We get paid for 39 weeks work, it is just paid in 12 monthly installments.

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HidinginaHardHat · 22/06/2011 22:59

Why does it matter? Because in the private sector (and indeed accross a lot of the public sector) paid annual leave is at a bare minimum with bank holidays often included into the annual leave allowance. All in all i think teachers get a pretty good deal out of it all. Yes they work long hours in term time, yes it must be pretty shitty, yes i appreciate they have to go in occasionally during the holidays, but i am struggling to see how they are worse off, in the grand scheme of things, than any other worker on a similar pay scale.

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jetgirl · 22/06/2011 22:59

Fifi - so your school was open on the day of the royal wedding then? Odd decision!

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HidinginaHardHat · 22/06/2011 23:00

39 weeks work for the salaries i've seen for teachers is pretty bloody good then!

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wearenotinkansas · 22/06/2011 23:00

I have a lot of respect for teachers - but little sympathy for them over the pensions issue. Everyone in the private sector is going to have to pay in more, work longer and get less back - and this isn't linked to the credit crunch. I think the public sector have to realise they are still on a very good pension deal compared to the rest of us.

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BoattoBolivia · 22/06/2011 23:00

In some areas the extra bank holiday was in the middle of the Easter holidays, so the school staff did not 'gain' a day, in other areas the schools were already back, so the staff gphadan extra days holiday. To make it fair nationally, those who did not gain a day,have been given it elsewhere in the year. Blame the moveable feast that is Easter.

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chibi · 22/06/2011 23:00

I reckon that going on strike will cost my family they equivalent of a month's worth of groceries when lost pay and fees for childcare are taken into account

Dh and i will also need to ensure our students get caught up afterwards

That anyone thinks we took tge decision to strike lightly, or as some kind of jolly is baffling to say the least

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MerylStrop · 22/06/2011 23:03

I respect their right to strike.
I can see the argument that teacher's pension arrangements are pretty cushty compared with some other folks' (mine and DH's included). But they are making the terms of their employment - far less favourable and they can't be expected to just agree without protest - why on earth should they?

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HidinginaHardHat · 22/06/2011 23:04

Can us parents charge the schools for loss of earnings/extra incurred childcare expenses etc? :)

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higgle · 22/06/2011 23:10

I work in the care sector, managing part of a large organisation that protects and helps the most vulnerable people in society, my work is stressful and I am effectively on call in some capacity most of the time I'm not at work. None of the 6 staff with potgraduate qualifications in my organisation have any pension provided for us. The Local Authority Commissioners who earn more than any of my colleagues are now trying to enforce cuts in care for our service users and reduce the amount they pay for it - this will mean our pay will probably be cut. They are going on strike to protect their own positions, I'm afraid they don't have my sympathy.

Maths - surely if you work to 66 you cn save up mo;re for your retirement and your money does not have to last so long - therefore youare getting a better deal? People are not old and past it at 66 anymore.

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jetgirl · 22/06/2011 23:11

Thanks for clarifying that for me, boatto.

The salary reflects the work and qualifications of the teachers. But then the strike isn't about salary. I could mention that I work equivalent hours to my dh (he is full time in the private sector, I'm on 0.6 as a teacher) I earn over £10,000 less, but then I would expect to be accused of being a whining teacher. I'm not, I love my job, work with incredible young people, and can't imagine what other line of work to do. What is frustrating is when non-teachers make judgements or sweeping generalisations about what teachers do. And before I am accused of getting into the real world, I have worked in the private sector too!

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