to ask if you agree with the teacher's strike upcoming

[AuntiePickleBottom]

i am on the fence about it, due to not understanding pensions.

[expatinscotland]

What is the correlation between the best and brightest have going into teaching with your putting your feet up at 60 for 30+ years being economically inactive? You think they're so stupid they don't know the score nowadays? Maybe they don't see it as a lifelong thing anymore, the people I worked with didn't. Give it up for others after a while and switch gears. It's a stepping stone on a lot of stones that make up a working life. At least, it was to those I spoke to, made sure they had recommendations, liased with Moray House for their PGCEs.

That's the point.

Young people today know the score. They know nothing's forever.

We need to be following their lead, because their support of your idea of retirement isn't there.

[expatinscotland]

Strike away!

Just don't expect full support.

[chibi]

Where i trained, the rule was that if your age + the number of years you had taught =85 you could retire with the full pension entitlement

It is also a final.salary pension-ish, but based on an average of the 5 best years.

I think this is interesting. The biggest advantage i can see is that it discourages post blocking- many older teachers might be happier to make way for younger ones in head of dept or other management roles, or even downshift and go part time, thus working for longer and delaying drawing their pension

[twinklypearls]

I have not said that people should be putting their feet up for 30 years. I have said a number of times that I have had other careers and plan to do other things after I finish teaching.

I am now relatively young so I can work 75+ hours a week, I can run myself into the ground in term time and then sleep for the first weekend of a holiday, I can get up at 5am to get things done after having worked until midnight. I can deal with the stresses of controlling 30 hormonal teenagers, switch from dealing with the outfall of abuse to stopping a fight to reminding a few hundred students a day that they need to sort their uniform out. I doubt I will be doing that at 60 odd, I also doubt that I will be doing it with so much energy and enthusiasm. If I am I would absolutely love to be corrected but if now I am willing to pack away my red biros and let someone younger and keener take over.

The evidence shows that teachers seriously affect their life expectancy if they retire much after 60, call me a selfish bitch but I want to live. I also want a period of my life when I can put my partner before my job. I do think I will have to work in some way until I can no longer move.

I accept that changes will have to be made to teachers pensions, I just think to much change all at once will affect the recruitment of the best graduates.

[twinklypearls]

Expat I am not on stike, I changed unions as I did not feel that I could strike with the information I have.

[goinnowhere]

I am not either. If I need to I might change Unions to avoid it as I'm not convinced it is justified at the moment. I'm not sure why me and Twinkly are here arguing the toss when we basically don't want to strike! . Probably because I've had a bad day and am feeling a bit unloved by my pupils and the world in general. . You know why I went into teaching? It didn't seem boring. And it mattered to me to do something that I felt had some importance. When I got my first job, and found out about the pension I was thrilled. I remember it. I've always valued security over riches. As time has gone on, I like the pupils more and more and more, as you learn to see beneath some of the awful behaviour. But the one thing that really does get me down is the feeling sometimes of being so loathed and despised. Most of us work hard and care. We can't do much about the system we work in, and just get on with doing the job.

[RottenTiming]

alistron1

All professionals have to keep abreast of constant developments in their field.

All professionals have their standards monitored by a professional body/committee of some sort.

The consequences for failing to keep up to indsutry acceptable standard are much higher for professionals other than teachers. Have you heard of doctors/dentists and medical negligence claims, accountants/solicitors being sued for poor/wrong advice ?

People working in industry do find themselves with new "masters" after mergers or takeovers or buyouts and terms and conditions are not protected indefinately. If your face doesn't fit you'll find yourself squeezed out/forced to leave one way or another.

[TalkinPeace2]

twinklypearls
goinnowhere

I have only one suggestion
stage a coup at your unions

Twinkly in particular has faced down the wrath of mumsnet (which is the unexpurgated version of the daily mail) and come out standing with integrity intact.
I still dont support the strike
but would LOVE her to be on the SMT at my kids school

but the real issue is that your strikes were called on the basis of misinformation (on both sides) and you have now sifted through the blerdy lot and are in a position to genuinely support teachers in getting the best deal for them and their pupils

[Quattrocento]

Here's two facts for you to deal with.

Fact No1 - Pensions in the public sector are way way better than pensions in the private sector. This is because pensions in the public sector give you a known entitlement at the end - either final salary or career average salary. Pensions in the private sector are based on defined contribution. You pay loads (shedloads) to get equivalent pensions.

Fact No2 - Salaries in the public sector have now overtaken salaries in the private sector. For most of the previous two decades the balance was the other way, but times are different now.

So why should I, a taxpayer in the private sector, pay for others to have bigger pensions and a bigger salary than me? Isn't it logical for me to expect public sector workers to feel the pinch as well?

[Quattrocento]

There's a worrying post by babyfrom the sea further down the thread

"Which, in our (admittedly limited) family experience, there is a lot of s**t being talked about how the teachers need to get into line with private sector pensions - they are already asked for a higher contribution than I am."

You need to get to grips with pensions here. You're basing your thinking on the amount paid into a pension scheme rather than what you ultimately get out of it. Your parents who are asked for a higher contribution will get something like 50% of their final (or career average) salary. If you're only paying in 5% into a defined contribution scheme, the chances are that you'll get buttons back. Please do go and get some advice - you can get a pensions review free from some banks - and get some projections and see for yourself what your contributions will buy you.

Just for your reference - I have to pay in 20% and even then I'll have to downsize the house etc to maintain a decent standard of living in retirement.

[DorisIsAPinkDragon]

Quattro

Your Fact are NOT facts

I would like to see evidence where salaries in the public sector have overtaken those in the private sector.

Public sector salaries are abated to allow for increased pensions contributions.

If what you say about the increase in public sector saleries is true and for tha past 2 decades (at least) the private sector has always been paid better than the public sector. Why should the public sector be at a loss in all areas (worse pension and worse pay?) because when this crisis ends and things get back on an even keel (at some point), private sector salaries will begin to grow, and yet again the public sector will be left far behind and struggling (again).

Oh and pensions for the most part in the public sector are low, a fixed percentage of a low wage be that final salary or career average, is still a very small amount of money to live on.

[twinklypearls]

As a teacher quattro I don't earn enough to downsize my house. I can't afford to buy, probably never will do. I therefore face a retirement in which I will be paying rent on a pension which according to my current predictions will be way under the £9K prediction. I accept that my pension may be good for what I have paid in to it but it is not gold plated and I am not holding the country to ransom so I can spend thirty years sailing round the med on a yacht.

However if I strike - and I am not this time - I will not be striking about my own wage or pension. I was silly at the time and chose a relatively low paid career because I was marrying into money. I am now paying the price for that and accept the consequences. I will make sure my own daughter does not make the same mistake and I will be directing her away from teaching.

I do however want to see teachers being given excellent terms and conditions of employment in the future so we get the best graduates.

[twinklypearls]

The problem with comparing jobs in the public and private sector is that there is often not an equivalent. There are teachers in private schools and their pay is varied, some earn more or less. They do often get the same pension.

I can compare myself to the people who left my university with a similar degree and I earn less than every single one of them , bar the librarian.

When I compare myself to teachers' partners or husbands who have similar degrees, again they all ( bar one who is a SAHD) earn more than me.

[trixymalixy]

the tda website also agrees that salaries in teaching are comparable to other professions

The link further down the thread shows how well paid they are as they move up the scales.

Average teacher pay is greater than average uk pay

Why do teachers persist in insisting they are badly paid?!?!?!?

I think it's this fallacy and the constant striking for more that grates so much and has turned the general public against teachers.

[Quattrocento]

Doris - surprised you haven't heard about it to be honest - this is the first headline from a quick google - but I can find and post the original research if you like

not that I usually read the Telegraph, you understand

[AwesomePan]

Quattro quotes the Torygraph, including quotes from the Ch.oComm bloke alleging public sector pay has "exploded out of all control" along with a bunch of the usual right-wing suspect organisations. Not the best convincing post.

[goinnowhere]

I have to argue with "constant striking". Really? When? I have taught for nearly 20 years and never once been on strike, nor has school ever been closed for a strike. Transport workers "constantly strike"

[goinnowhere]

I can compare myself to the people who left my university with a similar degree and I earn less than every single one of them , bar the librarian.

I agree, right down to the librarian. Not just my university, but all my friends and relatives at all universities. We all have similar A levels and degrees. Just made different choices. I am not complaining, as I have never been motivated by high wages, and think my wage is just fine. Just stating the fact, that hen comparing those of same age and educational levels, I am at the low end of wages. Higher than national average certainly, but peers, no.

[trixymalixy]

Alright threatening to strike over pay deals that private sector workers would jump at.

[trixymalixy]

But surely that depends on the degree you did? e.g. If you did a law degree but chose to follow a different path to your degree, it's hardly reasonable to compare yourself to people who then followed careers in corporate law.

[Goblinchild]

It is not illegal to protest or strike in this country for the majority of workers. Therefore I am entitled to object to changes in my working conditions, or my pension or the expectations of my job if I choose to.
I choose to.
Despite the hysterics, teachers have not been on strike for decades, I am happy with my pay but it is not exceptionally high.
So the accusations on those grounds are built on misconceptions, why are they still being thrown?

[sausagesandmarmelade]

I wholeheartedly support the teachers...

No-one strikes lightly. They lose a day's pay after all...so must feel strongly enough about their cause.

[Goblinchild]

I'd rather work to rule. That has a much greater impact on parents.

[mrsbiscuits]

I don't think this particular strike is justified but that is not my issue. The right to strike in past decades has meant something. Marching and protesting achieved great things, but I don't think it actually works anymore. Whether or not teachers get a better deal on their pensions or not will not be swayed by whether they work next Thursday or not, if I thought it would I might be behind them. Most of the teachers I know aren't striking, therefore they are not presenting a united front and cannot hope to be successful in winning their argument this way. If every single teacher and support worker walked out then they would have a good negotiating position but as it stands all they will end up doing is pissing off parents who have to take one child to school and keep the other one at home. I think the union bosses are dinosaurs and have had there day and are leading there members into a no win nightmare.

[trixymalixy]

Absolutely, if I was a teacher I would be striking, everyone has the right to strike.

It won't achieve anything as the government has the support of the majority of the population who are not public sector workers.

The problem with the unions using the threat of striking too lightly in the past has led to the misperception.