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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if the new PiP is just the beginning of a systematic attack on the most vulnerable in society

95 replies

madhairday · 19/05/2011 14:34

Posting this here because this issue needs to be raised.

I've just seen the possible new Personal Independence Plan criteria and am even more terrified about the future for the disabled and chronically sick than I was before.

The criteria has narrowed dramatically from DLA, and become even more of an automised tick list suitable for the ATOS robots to fill in, condemning thousands to a life sitting indoors staring at four walls. I notice the criteria goes straight from 'unaided' to 'constant help' with no inbetween. So many will be caught in the trap of not being disabled enough, so losing DLA, not being able to get ESA because of apparently being fit for work, then losing Jobseekers due to not being able to get to the Job Centre because they have lost their mobility allowance.

Is anyone else frightened about this? How many people are going to begin to believe life is simply not worth living any more? How is this society being civilised, and looking after its weakest? What is the future for disabled children? I notice there being very little (nothing) about autism, and very little about mental health issues. This criteria seems to me a cynical and hard way to get as many people off this benefit as possible.

The future looks cold to me.

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Peachy · 22/05/2011 17:31

Tell me about it

If dh's business doesn't take off by UC date we are done for really- SSD said the boys will have to go to foster care while we are in B&B due to their needs and a LA wait list of 30k people

concernedaboutthis · 22/05/2011 17:35

does anyone know what will happen to those that have currently been awarded DLA for life?

madhairday · 22/05/2011 17:40

Yes I'm afraid so, concerned. I have an indefinite award and everyone on this will be reviewed by ATOS from 2013 onwards, with their narrow little tick list and no accounting for fluctuating and invisible conditions. It's frightening.

Peachy :(

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concernedaboutthis · 22/05/2011 17:52

oh joy. Do you kow what, unless there is something really proactive I can do about this I'm going to have to bury my head in the sand while being as very careful with money as we can be (big change there then). I can't dwell on it, is far too scary and overwhelming to contemplate.

MintyMoo · 22/05/2011 18:00

It's so easy for the government to ignore conditions which fluctuate or which are invisible - or worse - those that are both. All of my problems are invisible and from other people who have them as well the common themes are disbelief... one poor woman had a neighbour threaten to report her to DWP because she answered the door to him without her walking stick! Luckily she wasn't claiming ESA as she's in work, it did shake her up though, he hadn't even spoken to her before, just had seen her around with her stick when she'd left the building, wanted to speak to her about something, she refused to agree (can't remember what, something about tidyness of communal areas) and he threatened to report her!

I fear people will suffer from neighbours under this benefit bashing from the press. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a lot of people who've disagreed with a neighbour and received threats, or received snide remarks about scrounging etc.

At least one advantage of invisible disabilities is that at least every Tom, Dick and Harry you meet doesn't open conversations with 'so what's wrong with you then?'. Until you have to explain for some reason and get the inevitable 'but you don't look sick to me'

madhairday · 22/05/2011 18:32

I know, and when you have an illness where one day you're seemingly fine, walking round etc, even popping to the shops (although it utterly saps you) and the next you are completely flat on your back and reliant on others, people find it hard somehow to believe and you do get the Hmm face a lot. I love the Spoon Theory for trying to explain it - but even then some won't bother to try and understand it. :(

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ScousyFogarty · 22/05/2011 18:51

No one would say the Cameron Tory govt is kind to the di, sorry to say,sabled. (they are being rotten to them) banker types in the Cabinet who have only experienced with rich mates. fell out with 5-live radio over this;they were treating the govt withreverewnce. Especially, sorry to say, the lady broadcasters. (Because on balnce I prefer female conduct to egoistic male bombast) But in this case the ladies seem to get it wrong. Perhaps under orders. Because the Coalition do set the TVicense fee.

madhairday · 22/05/2011 19:04

?? Not quite with you, scousy.

Are you GabbyLoggon?

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MintyMoo · 22/05/2011 19:10

I found the Spoon Theory so useful, it really helped DP understand, and it helped me to understand myself a bit more and got me straight in to the swing of pacing. I first read it a few years before I developed a spoon sapping illness and it helped me to better understand how people in that situation felt so it definitely does work.

Of course it only works if people can be bothered to read it and listen to it. The Gorilla in Your House is good too.

madhairday · 22/05/2011 19:22

I like that Minty, not seen that before, will be using

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MintyMoo · 22/05/2011 20:37

I like it too, saw it recently and loved it. Conjures up a wonderful mental image of people who doubted my illness being sat on by a massive Gorilla I'd dragged in to the office when they insisted I was malingering...

BearBehavingBadly · 23/05/2011 04:18

Marking my place as I'm too incensed to say anything reasonable or coherent about this at the moment apart from I HATE this bloody government!!!

cannydoit · 23/05/2011 06:13

so my autistic daughter, who goes to a special school and just got her renewal a couple of months ago for 2018 and hrc is not safe from what i am reading here?

madhairday · 23/05/2011 11:43

I think the PIP will be put into place firstly for over 18s but from what I understand all will come under the system eventually. How old is your dd?

We can fight still - links up the page. I know it seems pointless but we can try.

Minty - that gorilla is being pesky today and sitting rather awkwardly on me. Wouldn't even let me out on the school run. Must get it housetrained Grin

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cannydoit · 23/05/2011 11:53

she is 8. its honestly what we live on given the increases in taxcredits we get because of it if we lose it then i dont know what we would do.

Peachy · 23/05/2011 12:35

cannydoit; nope, and neitehr are my two asd children who have sny places and my child who is beinga ssessed

Sucks doesn't it?

But nobody gives a shit frankly

MintyMoo · 23/05/2011 16:40

Mad Grin - mine's allowed me to go to the supermarket today. On the promise of numerous bananas of course.

I swear people can see a Gorilla by me - people avoid me on public transport, like seriously people will move to sit next to me and then move away and remain stood Hmm and people always look at me oddly when I bump in to things and move away. Same as a child, maybe somehow people can see my SN!? When I was in the 6th form the year 7s used to look at me like they were scared of me, they also avoided sitting with me, I often had a whole deck of the bus to myself. I think they were somehow scared of me. I didn't even have a Gorilla then.

The best was when the hospital put eye drops in me before work to dilate my pupils, I looked like I was on drugs, I was on the train to work and a group of school kids and teachers got on for a school trip. I picked a child's folder up and the teacher thanked me, looked at my eyes and promptly moved the children to a different carriage. I need those drops more often, then I'll get a seat to myself Grin

beesimo · 23/05/2011 18:56

Minty Moo and others.

We have started a new lass who is a brilliant at pastries/fancies and icing wedding cakes ect however she will not make eye contact with the other lasses and is impossible to 'manage' as she will not look at me when I speak to her. She has had numerous jobs that have some times only lasted a matter of hours and her Mam a friend of my mine is at her wits end. We are wondering if she may be autistic, how can you tell? I don't want to kick her to the kerb but she is getting on everyones wick I can't have constant upsets in the kitchen.

So can you advise a book that may help us work out what is going on with her and how to help the situation. I don't want one with words a foot long in it I want basic advice/information and practical ideas. Any suggestions anyone???

MintyMoo · 23/05/2011 19:55

Tough one beesimo - I hate looking people in the eye, opticians visits are a nightmare.

I'm not autistic officially but do have dyspraxia, was told I was borderline ASD, I wasn't diagnosed with it as I have developed reasonable communication skills and my Dr felt the diagnosis wouldn't help as I already had the dyspraxia dx which does also cover some social issues. They went with dyspraxia with strong atutistic traits or something along those lines.

It's hard to describe what it's like, for me society is baffling, I 'get' some stuff, like asking people how they are etc but not other things. I often get in hot water due to saying/doing the wrong thing. I'm often criticised for not agreeing with everyone else and stating an alternative opinion, but you could just call that assertive. My behaviour is inconsistent, one day I'll be very chatty and chirpy, the next I won't talk, I don't really understand it myself. I often do/say stuff to DP and get a baffling reaction, he's beginning to realise that sometimes I am genuinely bewildered by his response and not meaning to be rude.

If your colleague does have Autism or SN chances are she's struggling to 'get' social norms. What are her specific issues other than getting on with people? Does she struggle to remember instructions? Is she disorganised? Does she take compliments well, if you praise her work is she receptive or does she not seem to care? If the latter she could be struggling with self esteem.

Some issues can be worked around, I find when I've been trying to befriend others on the spectrum a softly softly approach works. I did work experience once with a lad who I think had reasonably severe Autism, he also had Tourettes. He didn't want to socialise much, I just remained light and friendly 'do you want to come to lunch with us? no? ok, no worries, we're at Costa if you fancy joining later'. He never did come to lunch but over time he opened up and started talking more and interacting with us more as a group - he even started volunteering to present towards the end. I think the last thing you should do is pile pressure on her, as in if she doesn't want to mix just say 'ok, let us know if you change your mind' rather than being visibly annoyed so to speak.

I wouldn't say anything to her yet, if her Mum is concerned she may be on the spectrum it may sound better from her? Hope that helps, you could try contacting an organisation like Remploy who help disabled people in the workplace - they could probably advise you on best practice on approaching a potential difficulty with an employee you think may be caused by a disability.

MintyMoo · 23/05/2011 19:59

Right here's some links for you, about to have tea so have only scanned them I'm afraid

www.w2wsolutions.co.uk/news-article/remploy-disability-handbook/195

www.delni.gov.uk/index/publications/pubs-das/employing-people-autism.htm (NI but the principles will be the same in terms of what autism is etc)

www.equalityni.org/sections/Default.asp?cms=News_News&cmsid=1_2&id=269&secid=1_1

www.autism.org.uk/working-with/health/information-for-general-practitioners/recognising-autism-spectrum-disorder.aspx

www.articlesbase.com/diseases-and-conditions-articles/recognizing-adult-autism-symptoms-add-odc-or-perhaps-autistic-587312.html

Hope they can help, you could try posting a seperate message just on this - I know there are Mnetters with Autism who may be better placed to help you

beesimo · 23/05/2011 20:09

Thank you Minty Moo

I have just come off the phone to her Mam and we have agreed lass can work on her own icing wedding cakes for time being as that is what she wants to do and she is good at it. I am not being nasty but I have not got time to spend 'hours' on one employee but we will try and find a way forward. All this SN ect is completely new to me.

Thanks again.

salsmum · 23/05/2011 21:59

I feel that we will go back to the old institutions Sad speaking as a mother and daughter who's a carer and a person who also works in the caring field.
With all the cuts going on in the local authorities it surely would be more cost effective to pay less staff to look after more people so for instance, if you have 6 people living in 2 homes (3 + 3) and the care staff number 10 the way things are going they will put all 6 together and only pay 6 staff....as a parent and carer this is a terrifying prospect Angry supported living in small groups will be a thing of the past.....I really hope I'm wrong.

Glitterknickaz · 23/05/2011 22:04

I have utterly given up on trying to garner any support for this off the main body of Mumsnetters (including HQ) who obviously think by metaphorically sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "la la laaaa I can't heeear yoooooou" it doesn't apply to them.

Let's hope it never does, eh?

MintyMoo · 24/05/2011 09:11

Beesimo - try looking at an ASD/Autism specific forum - might give you a better idea if she fits the bill. If her Mum is concerned she needs to consult a GP, or even speak to her DD. I found out I had dyspraxia through here actually, I was googling difficulties with learning to drive and a Mumsnet link came up where someone said she couldn't drive due to her Dyspraxia. I thought 'what's that?' googled it and finally, after 21 long years I saw myself - I just read the symptoms list on the dyspraxia foundation and thought 'yes, that's me' I finally made sense, I showed DP and he was shocked too. He said it was almost as if the person writing the list knew me personally. Perhaps your employee would benefit from her Mum showing her some info on AS/ASD etc - she might have the same sense of relief that I did - finally knowing I wasn't useless but that there was a real reason why I struggle.

Glitter - the lack of support has made me :( I'm surprised there's not more people affected, either because they have a disability themselves, or a child with SN or even a relative such as a parent, an aunt, uncle, cousin, nephews/nieces etc who are affected by disability.

Unfortunately I think this blog here is accurate Diary of a Benefit Scrounger and that people do genuinely believe people with disabilities have either;

a) brought in upon themselves
b) are choosing to stay disabled through negative attitudes etc

People don't like to think it could happen randomly to anyone, and therefore them so they bury their heads in the sand and happily convince themselves that they're not disabled because they haven't allowed themselves to be. The rest are clearly faking it, or perhaps have some minor symptoms that they're exaggerating but they're not really disabled.

madhairday · 24/05/2011 09:44

I agree, and it makes me :( that even in a high traffic area like AIBU the number of posts is so small and restricted to so few. It reflects society unfortunately, and makes me wonder if there is any bloody point in fighting this.

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