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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Children's play getting too hands on for my liking...

46 replies

DeidreBarlow · 16/05/2011 16:29

Not sure if this is exactly the right place but figured it would get the most traffic. Apologies if it goes on a bit too, I'll explain...

A few months ago DD (4.8) and DN (7) were playing upstairs at a family party. My mum overheard DN say to DD "Lets play the Willy Game, I'll show you my willy and you can touch it". DD said thats a silly game or something and then mum went in and asked them to come downstairs to play. I mentioned it to SIL so she could have a word with DN and explain that its a silly game and not something he should do. Was a bit awkward but she had a word. I told DD that we don't play games like that and if it happened again to tell em or DH.

They have played together several times since and DN always wants to play with DD on his own, and won't let DS join in but I figure this is more than likely because DS can be a PITA. Anyhow, yesterday we were at FIL, and they were playing upstairs and in the dinning room on their own (we were in the lounge), DN kept asking me to not let DS play with them. DH thought it a bit odd as they weren't playing anything specific just pretending games. Anyway last night DD was saying what a fun time she had had playing and then started giggling about the silly games she was playing with DN. So I asked what they were playing. She said they played Doctors and DN told her to lie down, took off her knickers and wiped and touched her ladybum (apologies thats what we call it). They then played the Willy game again, and he told her to look at his willy but she didn't want to touch it. DH was furious with DN. I told him I'm sure it was just childhood curiosity but he said DN was very devious and when he thought about it was constantly trying to get DD on her own. FWIW I think DH was a tad over dramatic here. DD also said that DN had asked her not tell.

I rang SIL and explained what DD told me they had been playing, and that DD wasn't allowed to tell. She just kind of laughed and said have a word but I got the impression she didn't thinkit was a big deal. I explained that I would not be letting them play on their own together in future.

Am I over-reacting? Is this normal for kids? Or is it a big deal?

OP posts:

diddl · 16/05/2011 17:43

Sorry, but I don´t think it is "very normal" at 7 to try to get a younger child to "show you theirs & touch yours".

And that he is so determined he is excluding other children.

TattyDevine · 16/05/2011 17:45

But then again - children of that age will try and do things that they have been told not to, sometimes specifically becauses they have been told not to. If it were that he had done something else when he had been told not to (say looking in a certain cupboard) and had deviously orchestrated a way of doing this, that wouldn't seem so sinister, just, well, sneaky little so and so, etc.

Its because it was involving errrr genitals that the sneakiness seems so sinsiter but if you assume it was non sexual and view the deviousness as something separate and also normal, perhaps its not as bad as it seems, but still needs dealing with.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 16/05/2011 17:46

Deidre I have a 7yr old DS and I can't imagine him doing this with someone, esp someone much younger. 7 is definitely old enough to have learnt that that's not appropriate behaviour. for your DN as well as your DD. I'd be speaking again to SiL tbh.

SignOnTheWindow · 16/05/2011 17:47

It 's not sinister and is very normal for a 7 yo boy.he is being devious not because he is sinister but because he knows he's not allowed to play it.It wants sorting out with both ypur DN and your DD. DD shouldn't have played it after you had told her not to

Totally agree with the above. 7 is very young. I definitely remember playing such games with my cousin - we knew they were 'private bits' hence playing away from parents. Yet it was innocent and I remember children at school doing similar.

He certainly shouldn't have done it if told not to, but 'sinister' is a very, very loaded word to use of a seven year old and frankly I am surprised that it is being bandied about.

diddl · 16/05/2011 17:50

Oh yes, they will try to do things that they have been told not to-just that he seems so obssessive about it!

I also think that 7yrs old is old enough to know not that it´s not appropriate.

Well, I have a boy & a girl & they used to bath together, run around naked, see my husband & I naked, so maybe the curiosity isn´t there.

ashamedandconfused · 16/05/2011 17:55

I disagree with the posters who think that its just the sexual connotations of this "game" that is alarming to an adult - its not, its the deliberately telling another child not to say anything when they know they are doing wrong

same as if they were shoplifting for sweets, or playing with matches, fags or drink at that age.

Boys only a little older than this have gone on to commit VERY sexual acts on younger children, and his mother needs a sharp wake up call.

Its all very well if you are happy to monitor the situation so it cannot happen to DD again, but how many other friends on play dates might this happen to - and I cannot see their parents remaining as calm as you if SIL laughs it off

I think we do also need to tell children that there are good secrets and bad secrets, and if anyone asks them to keep a nice secret about a surprise present or something, thats Ok, but secrets about things they do to you are not ok, even if the person is a grown up and says the police will take someone away if you tell etc etc

aldiwhore · 16/05/2011 17:56

I think it is fairly normal as in its not uncommon, but even so it needs to be dealth with. I don't think 'anger' is the way to go though, but a talk regarding privacy and appropriate behaviour.

My eldest knows that his willy is private and just for him, and that being touched there or touching others is totally inappropriate and unacceptable... my 3 year old is at the stage where he'll get it out to make his brother laugh, but he still gets the 'its private and just for you' talk.

I think you're right to be concerned. I think your sister needs to deal with this, but its not unusual and does not equate to your DN being some kind of deviant-in-waiting. Your dd needs the talk as well as she was also a willing participant in the game.

I think a reasoned, calm, firm response is required, not a wailing, over emotional 'peeedo emergency' slanging match.

JamieAgain · 16/05/2011 18:12

I agree with Tatty Devine

EffiePerine · 16/05/2011 19:01

Deidre: I can see why you are worried and I think you dealt with DD very well. From her point of view, she needs to know what is and isn't appropriate and how to say no. I'd am slightly concerned about your DN tbh. If that were one of my boys I'd a) be having a very serious talk with them and b) taking a hard look at what was going on with friends and school in case there was anything 'sinister' happening from his point of view. Then again my eldest is coming up 5 and this hasn't really been an issue yet.

EffiePerine · 16/05/2011 19:03

Sorry about typing - on phone

diddl · 16/05/2011 19:13

But taking the "genitals" out of it, making a younger child play a game that they don´t want to & keep it secret, and excluding the other child in the house are just not nice!

Blu · 16/05/2011 19:19

I cna remember very vividly as a child going through a phase when all any of us wanted to do was play doctors and nurses and look at each other's bottoms. or play 'rude' games, which could be just hiding somewhere and talking about rude words. But we were always looking at each others bits, boys as well as girls.

And it could well be that he told her not to tell because last time his Mum 'had a word' - so he didn't want to be busted again.

If it is playing Drs and Nurses and bottoms, and no specific talk more normally associated with adult sexuality, FINE to talk about boundaries and privacy and not being silly, but I wouldn't necessarily assume anything serious or of ill intent.

Does no-one else remember playing these games, and that insatiable curiosity?

Blu · 16/05/2011 19:21

Just to be clear, I have explicitly told DS that no-one must ever be told not to tell a parent because everyone must always talk to thier Mum or Dad about anything they want - but unless anyone has had that chat with the boy, isn't it normal again? 'Don't tell ' happens over loads of things - sweets etc.

LadyThompson · 16/05/2011 19:46

I think you have handled this tricky situation well. As others have said, the worrying things are his insistence and the secrecy but I don't think there's anything in it other than he's intrigued and knows it's something he shouldn't do and he is trying to cover his tracks. Basically, I think it needs nipping in the bud, as firmly (but with as little drama) as poss. Which is what I think you have tried to do. I think your SIL needs to be a bit more on side, though, because she needs to have a proper chat with her son.

thederkinsdame · 16/05/2011 20:19

I think it's sinister that your DN said not to tell and was giving her precise instructions. It sounds to me as if he may be acting out something that has been done to him by an older child, or dare I say, and adult. It would be ringing alarm bells for me - surely if it was just a case of playing a rude game, he wouldn't have cared less if your DS was there or not? The fact that he was targeting your DD and getting her alone suggests to me that there could be more to this than meets the eye. I would not allow them to be alone together, and I certainly think your SIL should be thinking very carefully about whose been alone with her son. I'm not saying anything has happened, but it is a possibility and if that is the case, your DN needs protecting, too.

Rubena · 16/05/2011 21:17

Deidre,
you are NOT over reacting. I'd be furious! DN wasn't exactly doing it in the room with you all. He knows it's wrong and inappropriate. SIL needs to take this more seriously. You are doing the right thing not letting them play alone. I don't think you're DH is over reacting either. Good luck with it and stick to your gut.

MadamDeathstare · 16/05/2011 22:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blu · 16/05/2011 22:20

OP, how old is your DS? (sorry if I have missed this)

Law0 · 16/05/2011 22:23

If I was the DNs mother I would be wondering what he has seen or he has been subject to for him to behave like this.

It is beyond childhood curiosity. I have dealt with court cases concerning children exhibiting sexualised behaviour and I would be worried.

Fecklessdizzy · 16/05/2011 22:48

We used to play " doctor" with the kids next door. We all knew it was a bit rude and naughty but that just made it funnier.

I'm not sure I'd be happy for my DS's to do the same now though, people's perceptions have changed a bit!

fairydoll · 18/05/2011 20:59

Can I draw your attention to this excerpt from the OP
'DD was saying what a fun time she had had playing and then started giggling about the silly games she was playing with DN. '
This doesn't sound like the little boy was acting in a sinioister way or like a predator, it sounds as if the OPs DD was equally up for playing doctors and nurses.I think the DN is being demonised here.

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