AIBU about my inter faith relationship

[smallmotherbigheart]

OK, so I'm in this relationship for almost a year now. He's muslim and I'm a non practicing christian. The thing is, I have been warned time and time again.... but he's so lovely.... never met anyone like him. My son adores him.

So the problems start with the fact I'm a black single mum who refuses to convert for the sake of the relationship because I think it's unfair to my upbringing and a disrespect to the religion. We were friends for a long time and I tried to resist it turning into something more... but as I mentioned he is adorable. He told his mum who took it well... but his dad sounds like the most insensitive thing you could ever imagine, not to mention his brother who teases him for going out with a 'black girl'. AIBU to sometimes wonder why I put myself in this situation and to sometimes think that the future with him may not be so bright? He doesn't want me to convert or change in any way, but he sh*ts his pants at the thought of his dad finding out

If you were to get married or have a long term partnership, you are already presenting your child with a group of relatives (granted, step relatives) that are divided - some are lovely, but others have the attitude that you and your son are not good enough unless you convert. It is a grey area - but think carefully, it's a situation that has fair amount of negatives being inflicted on your son, who hasn't made this choice for himself. I'm not sure what his brother's position is exactly - is it lighthearted teasing but he is nice to you? Or is it mockery/contempt and he ignores you? The other question is, do you want a marriage and the whole extended family thing of jovial get togethers and play dates with cousins and visits with grandparents, or are you just wanting a relationship with DP only and a support network of just friends? And check that it is the same as what DP wants - or wants 10 years down the line. If 10 years down the line he wants marriage and the whole extended family set up, you could be setting yourself up for disappointment.

Have you had a serious conversation about this issue with your boyfriend? It might help to sit him down, explain your worries, and ask him how he sees these issues panning out. Does he plan to tell his father the truth at some point - it doesn't sound like it. Can you live with that - maybe you can, maybe you can't! Or maybe he can envision a future when he will be open with his father, if circumstances change? I think it would be worth having this conversation if you haven't already. Good luck!

I think there are lots of issues here.

Race - Surprisingly Islam does not allow for racism. Muslims come in every colour under the sun. However some muslims are racist. I guess you need to figure out is even if you were everything that your potential inlaws wanted you to be, would they still be racist? It sounds as if his sister isn't but perhaps that his brother is.

Religion - Islam does not require you to convert true. But any relationship with mixed values (not just religious) are extremely hard work. Mixed religion relationships are harder because everyone has a set of different beliefs. If everyone believes the same thing then things are obviously easier. His sister obviously views things like this.

His dad - Generally when people are scared of people finding things out it means that they aren't 100% committed to something. If he does love you, then he would tell his dad. Yes it would be hard but at least he would be honest. The longer that you aren't part of the 'home' picture the harder it is to bring you in and the easier it is for life to go on over there without you in it.

You - what do you want? Is it enough for you and your son to be in the sidelines while he goes off to his other life? Do you want to be part of the family like any normal person? like southofthethames says is it enough for you to be with just him?

As a muslim I've had lots of friends who have been in similar situations, some work out some don't. The first step for your relationship having a real chance is for your boyfriend to be honest both with his family and with himself. I think he is being honest with you but at the same time I don't think it is enough. If he was in a relationship with a muslim for a year you would probably be talking about marriage rather than talking about mentioning you to his dad.

I hope that helps, either way good luck

I agree, you need to sit down and talk this through with your dp. Interfaith relationships can & do work - I've been in one for 16 years, and still going strong! But open, honest communication is a must.

You need to accept that his family may never approve of your relationship. If you get married and have kids, they may even cut you off completely and have no contact - I know a family in this position, grandparents have never even met the grandchildren, despite living down the road. Could you cope if that happened? Could he?

What if they remained in contact but constantly expressed their disapproval. Would he fight back? Would he cut off contact with them? Or would he roll over & play dead? How would you cope in these scenarios?

As for your own relationship, you say that he doesn't want you to change in any way, or convert to Islam. Fair enough, but would he want your children raised as Muslims, and if so, would you be ok with that? What would that mean for them in practice, as they are growing up? Would they be able to celebrate Christmas, for example? Would they be allowed to date as teenagers? Etc etc. You also need to think about what all this might mean for your own child - how would all this affect him?

I think you need to bear in mind the fact that religious belief & practice are not static and unchanging. As people get older, their views change over time. It's not unusual, for example, for someone's convictions to fade over time, but in other cases, people often return later in life to the stricter interpretations of faith from their childhoods. If your dp became more devout in his beliefs over time, how might that impact on you? How would it impact on him at a later date if you suddenly started practicing Christianity? How would any such changes impact on children?

The race issue is difficult and the prejudices probably won't go away. If you have children, they would be mixed race, and it's possible that they might be rejected by his family for that reason. Are you both strong enough to deal with that, to give them the self-esteem so that they can deal with it?

To some extent, I understand his fear of telling his dad about you. Filial obedience & respect for parents is prized very highly in some Asian cultures, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing - I love the way my DH respects and values my parents for example. But ultimately, you need to know who he'd choose if he were forced to make a choice. Ask him!

Good luck!

Very wise advice there from MrsSnow and magicmummy. Basically, I think there are some things you will have to accept, some things you will have to make sure (through open discussion and pinning him down) that he accepts, and some things that are going to be a gamble.

Among the things you have to accept is probably the fact that he willl want to bring up any children as Muslim- so if you have children with him, you are tacitly agreeing to that.

Among the things he has to accept is that it is his job to defend you, openly and instantly, against any racist or otherwise derogatory remarks; you need to spell that out and make it clear that this is a dealbreaker.

As for the gamble, the grey area, I would include such thoughts as the possibility that he becomes more devout with age, that your views change, that his love for you is at least partly triggered by the delicious bad-boy feeling of defying his and that this will feel less attractive when he is in his mid-forties.

I don't post much about this, principally because I feel that things aren't so much an issue of religion as 'people' if you see what I mean.

however, I met a fabulous man he was kind, funny, well travelled, attentive, handsome etc etc. I fell head over heels for him and we had a very romantic courtship. He opened up a whole new world to me and I was utterly dazzled by him.

I married him and we had littlemad.

It is now 4 years since I left him and he is still abusive and very unpleasant. He vowed to destroy me because I dared to walk away from him and it is only the unwavering support of my family and friends that have got me through the horror of the domestic violence, the emotional problems he caused while quietly undermining me and my self belief.

We have spent somewhere in excess of £50k in legal fees to secure the divorce and custody of littlemad. He has spent very much more than that and is still spending, I am now self representing and I know more about the family court than any one ever should.

That's my story and you're probably asking why it's relevant here. My exh allowed me to beleive he was tolerant of my religion and that his family would be as well, that there would be no pressure to convert to Islam and that they respected the fact I was finanacially independent and worked hard. amazingly when things went wrong and he started hitting me, his parents (who had always called me the daughter they never had) told me it was my fault, that I was too impatient with him, that it was my responsibility not to act in a way that would inflame him and if he had to hit me I had no one to blame but myself. His parents had supported our relationship and our marriage all the way along but suddenly they turned it into a cultural issue.

It's about people, it's not because he's a Muslim it's because he's an arse. If your partner is going to accept his parents being disrespectful to you now it is a warning sign and you either need to face it - putting aside how you feel about him but talk to him about it. You might resolve it and it might be fine. But lovey, you need to be sure now and you need to do this for the sake of your child because if it all goes wrong later on because you didn't sort it, it will be your child who is most affected by a heartbroken Mummy.

I'm so sorry I can't be more positive, but I'm trying to say talk to him and see if it can be sorted if not, don't ignore warning signs.

For what it's worth, my story does have a happy ending, and yours will too.

I wonder if he isn;t forcing you to convert because he thinks deep in side that you are not for life? please' if you have misgivings now hold back. I too know of stories of muslims changing as time goes on.xx

Cjel, with respect, people change as time goes on. Not just Muslims!

Brutal honesty:

I think that, long term, it is highly unlikely that he will go against his religion, family and everything he has been brought up to believe in order to sustain a relationship with a non-Muslim woman, separated/divorced and who has a child with another man. He is highly unlikely to marry you, and it is highly unlikely that his family will ever accept or welcome you and your son into their lives. Of course, ther eis a chance that I am wrong, but I think it is a slim one.

Good luck with whatever course you decide to take.

Personally, I wouldn't pursue this relationship at all.

A friend married a not very devout Muslim. While they were childless, things were fine. But once children came along, their very different ideas of how to bring up children caused lots of conflict.

As the children grew older, her DH became more and more traditional in his views both towards his children and his wife. This got much worse when DH's father died and he became the head of the extended family.

Of course no-one knows if your relationship would work. However most people have their own ideas of how to bring up children and your religious upbringing can have a huge impact on this. And its also not unusual for people to get more like their parents in terms of views and behaviour, as they grow older. Marrying someone with very different religious views can have a major impact on all of this.

This must be really hard for you if he is as nice as you say he is.

I agree with Whatevs.

There was a thread on here recently where some man had been pretty much cut out by his family, elders etc because he had taken up with OP and he pretty much just dumped her to get back in with the family and it seemed to be all her floozy fault leading him astray etc. Even if they had got married it was unacceptable.

There are some complete nutters out there their religion is the right one and everyone else is wrong and they will never change and it can be very hard for their offspring to break the bonds of what they have been brought up with as right. Even if they seem really modern and relaxed to start with they seem to revert back to nutterdom as soon as the family start to apply real pressure.

Long term if you have children with this man they are going to be mixed race. Will that make his family more accepting or even worse I don't know.

There is already your child who is black/mixed race who is nothing to do with them. Even if they accept any children you have with their son be very careful that they treat your son the same!

I am completely gobsmacked that your being black is commented on in this day and age. It is just sooo grrrrr when are some people ever going to learn! FFS you are a woman too!!!! You must be the lowest of the low to some people

Mixed faith relationships can work, or rather the faith element can be not an issue. I'm an atheist and my DH is a muslim, we have zero issues relating to faith, really. His family do accept me, even when I got pg before we got married they were pleased and happy for people to know. I do know couples where there has been family opposition but the opposite way round. Two of DH's friends who are married to english women have found it very hard to be accepted by their wives' families. In both cases the families were very trad english and wealthy (mine are neither :) ) so it's not a religious thing necessarily. Also, if his family are racist that's not due to their religion either.

Has your DP told his family he is with you? If not that would ring alarm bells. Not many people will cut themselves off from family support for a partner, and if they do it's likely to cause problems long term. I have a friend whose heart was broken when her bangladeshi boyfriend of 4 years left her to marry a bangladeshi teenager. He didn't want to but he did anyway :( Is that likely to happen with you? There is a lot to weigh up.

I think cjel's post makes a very good point. Up until this point, OP, you're dating. That's not perhaps seen as a permant arrangement and perhaps the parents have held back hoping that their son will toe the line with regard to the woman he marries.

I don't think it's about 'people', I think it's every bit of religion dictating what must and must not happen and that if people of that religion don't follow it, they are failed in some way. I know very little about the Muslim faith, or any other than Catholicism and, apart from the inherent differences in beliefs, the doctines are inflexible and to deviate means trouble.

I know he's a lovely bloke, OP, but he's of a religion that places such strictures on its followers that you will either have to fall into line or get away from it. It's not the colour of your skin because if you were to convert, this would obviously work, but then you'd have to follow a faith that you don't necessarily want to follow. Your BF is of that faith and if you are not, it's never going to work, you will have a lifetime of obstacles ahead of you and it's not fair to you or your BF.

I watched 'East is East' recently, fab film, but it's uncomfortable viewing because of the clash of cultures and the strong, inflexible faith of the father who has transported his identity and culture to a different country. Any deviation is unacceptable.

magicmummy1 respect accepted thank you!! However although I know people change, the point I wanted to make was that I know specifically muslims that changed after marriage/children and not for the better as far as wife and children were concernered.

What would he say if you said that if you had any children together you would want them to be brought up as Christian? Or even as neither Christian nor Muslim but the child(ren) could decide themselves when they were old enough.

Because whilst it might be obvious to him that even if you didn't convert your kids would be Muslim it's something that if I were in your shoes would need to be discussed and would not be obvious. It would also be a bit of a dealbreaker for me particularly if I was experiencing bad behaviour from the PIL (regardless of religion)

Might Be an interesting starting point for a conversation about your future together and how he would see things turning out and whether his first priority would be you or his family/religion...

Darth You are right that if he is a practising muslim he shouldn't according to the faith, have a relationship in this way with someone who isn't a muslim. But I know muslims who have done exactly that - both male and female muslims. One has married her non muslim DH. Others have kept their relationships very secret from their extended families.

Oh smallmotherbigpersonality, I'm a hopeless romantic and would say go with your heart.

However, I know commone sense is often more reliable than the heart.

Okay, no help whatsoever, but good luck with whatever you and boyfriend decide to do.

i think it's a bit unfair to tar all muslims with the same brush. smallmotherbigheart, i salute you for staying true to yourself. it does my head in when people convert to islam because they are with a muslim partner, and start dressing in all the muslim clothing. it's so hypocritical and fake (although there may be some people who really do change their beliefs)

Thanks, ladies. I have talked this over with him and thought about this a lot. I think to be honest with culture is going to be a huge problem for us. He says that it scares me when I talk about this because he fears that I might walk away from him because of this. I have told him from the beginning that if his family does nt accept it or if i have to continue to be his secret for too long I will walk away.

He said that our biggest issue will be the religious aspect, stating that his family could get over everything else but that. A friend of mine recently said to me that if I loved him truly I would convert for him, however I see this quite differently. I believe that if we both love each other we will accept each other as what we are; I won't expect him to stop being a muslim therefore he should not expect me to convert. Right now, despite all the good things that have happened between us I feel the future for us is rather bleak, probably due to my head strong feelings but I think that converting is not just a disrespect to myself, but also a disrespect to the religion itself