to think the washing machine has liberated women more than the pill?

[bettybosseye]

I'm serious, think about it, there are alternatives to the pill but only one to hours spent every day hand scrubbing and wringing piles of washing.
The pill is held up as something that gave women control and this is undoubtedly true but the humble washing machine has emancipated us from hours of drudgery every day and like i say it is unrivaled. The washing machine rules!

In the olden days(!) before washing machines families had maybe 2 sets of clothes each and washing was done weekly.

Nowadays (with all the gadgets available) we all expect to have clean clothes daily...in fact if one started a thread on here about wearing clothes more than 2 days in a row there would be lots of 'disgustings' and if it related to kids cries of 'call SS'

I don't think that the washing machine has 'liberated' women. How can it if women are still expected to do the washing, and do more washing than they did 30 years ago?

We haven't got a washing machine atm.

I agree with you emphatically!!

(won't get one until the end of next week at earliest, [sigh])

That's why I specifically mentioned female contraception, used after intercourse, as opposed to condoms. That would be female controlled rather than male, in much the same way that the pill is seen as being today. I don't think that on the whole, either men or women wanted particularly large families over the past 500 years in England. I don't think there was any partiuclar economic advantage.

Just as a note of pedantic accuracy - I don't think it's true to say that English women with money that they controlled were powerless within their societies over the last 500 years. However, I think that the number of women who had money at their control was small in comparison to the number of men who had money at their control.

Pill-schmill. Condom and diaphragms do the same job. Pill mainly seems to be to do with considerations like 'not liking to interupt' ; 'not liking the feel'. As someone else said, as much a benefit to men as women.

A downside of the pill? "I assumed she was on the pill". The pathetic excuse for not taking responsibility .

also - STDs . This means that in principle the pill should only be used in a long term relationship - with full STD clean bills of health. In practice it means that women are drawn into putting their health at risk for no reason.

The washing machine gets my vote.

alistron1 If you think women spend more time doing more washing nowadays than pre washing machine your off your head!In the nicest possible way of course!

My mum always claims that tampons were more liberating than the pill. Can see her point.

yanbu washing machine is great, and personally would not use the pill at all because i think it messes with your body, hormones etc it's not natural. so i prefer washing machine

I totally think domestic technology has been vital. Like was said upthread, the more time work takes in the household - fetching water, washing, sweeping by hand, making bread, gathering fuel, setting fires... etc... the more someone is needed in the house to do those tasks, & that defaulted to women (by and large).

The diaphragm became available to (married) women in 1922 in birth control clinics in England. There is fascinating reading in a book called "Dear Dr Stopes" of letters from working class women sent to the founder of the clinics - a real insight IMO.

Alistron, totally agree with you, in fact someone on tv the other day was saying that there is as much work involved in laundry now
as there was pre-washing machine because we do so much more of it. It's not la our-saving at all, it's just altered the way we do it.

I've never actually liked using the pill (kills all libido so makes it a very effective contraceptive) but use the washing machine a lot.

I think really good painkillers are very liberating. My periods would be hell without dosing myself with neurofen.

Once a woman married all that she owned became her husbands. Until the ninetenth century a wife and children were the property of the husband. That is what inspired the book the "the mayor of casterbridge". There was no such crime as sexual abuse or rape within marriage, women could not say that they did not want sex. Incest and child abuse were not illegial. Women were reliant on their father or brother, in families that had money, marriage often took place for status. 'Hobsons choice' really.

I think that most people think of the pill as being the most liberating thing for women but I disagree. I think the pill has freed men much more then women.

Before the washing machine women spent one whole day out of every seven breaking their backs doing laundry.

Rooble well if "someone on thetv the other day was saying" then it must be true.

YABU

The pill controls the amount of laundry you have to do too as more kids = more washing.

Seriously, given the choice of contraception or a washing machine I would choose contraception.

YANBU...But I think we'd all just be a lot stinkier without our washing machines- I mean you wouldn't bother changing your clothes every day if you had to wash them by hand would you?

I agree with alistron1. Women still do nearly the same amount of housework we always have done, only now we have to have full-time jobs, too. The standards keep going up and up. Of course they do, they want us to waste our second nearly-equal salaries on something, after all.

If we had 18th century standards and 21st century labour-saving techonology, then I'd agree with you! But we don't.

I did read somewhere that Victorian women didn't wash things like trousers (they were "brushed down") and a shirt was only changed once a week. Moreover, girls would often take wash day off school so they could help there mothers.

Of course if you were upper working class/middle class then you would get your washing done for you.

No idea if that was less or more liberating for women.

ambarth just for you, i'll say again really slowly so you can follow it, I'm not talking about "contraception", I'm talking about the pill. There are alternative ways to control how many babies you have but no alternative to the washing machine.
Was that slow enough?

Choufleur I still maintain that tampons were a better invention than the wheel

We are comparing unlike things here and it is getting all muddled.

Reproductive freedom for women is a good thing but the contraceptive pill is a contentious one given the risks it carries.

There are other forms of contraception which don't carry medical risk to women.

Long-term, vasectomy is very safe but I know many twats men who wouldn't have it because, "if anything happened to my wife I'd want to be with a younger woman and she would want children"

The washing machine comparison? Depends how one defines "liberation" I suppose. I live with a man and he is able to use said machine as well as I am.

I also agree that the sexual revolution benefited men more than it did women.

YANBU....I cannot imagine what it would be like to have to do all that handwashing. the amount of laundry we do in our house and also having to boil wash nappies as my mum had to do.

And even if we washed less items than we do now, wash day would still be that, WASH DAY! not bung a pile of stuff in and press a few buttons but a whole day every week spent in drudgery.
Even when women went to the wash houses it was a huge amount of hard work that took a whole day.
All you doubters out there should try it.

So if the contraceptive pill was made illegal and you had a baby every year or so until the menopause it would be okay because you have a washing machine?

Sorry, it if came to that I'd rather go back to scrubbing!

children generate even more washing.

the pill = the more liberating factor.

Spermy really slow and talking louder now, there are alternatives to the pill but not to the washing machine. If the pill was made illegal i wouldn't have a baby every year because i would use an alternative form of contraception. Would you like me to go through that one more time? I know it's difficult but try to keep up dear.

I know about Monday wash day.

My family generate a machine-load of washing every day of the week. Clothes, towels, bed sheets. Curtains sometimes and the cushions from the sofas.

The time it takes each day would add up to an entire Monday I think.

I wouldn't swap it for reproductive freedom though - no fucking way!