to feel frustrated by this speculative cv I've received?

[flowery]

For those who don't know, I have my own HR consultancy business. I get sent speculative cvs from time to time.

I had one yesterday. I think it's great that the lady in question is being proactive about finding a job, rather than just flicking through the paper and registering with agencies etc. She's gone to the trouble of contacting lots of people and I commend it and am impressed by it.

However she's really not done herself any favours with her application. I think looking at it it could have been so much better and I think she will get much poorer results from her campaign than she should have got had she worded her email and cv differently.

It's reasonably likely I will need extra help during the next year, so although that's not now, had she done better with her application and convinced me more that she wanted a career in HR, I may well have been keen to stay in touch and possibly offer her some work.

I will obviously respond to her, but do you think I should offer feedback on her application or would that seem patronising and intrusive? I'm just frustrated on her behalf that she's gone to this effort and therefore has a certain amount of get up and go, but is not going to see the results she could.

[Blackletterday]

im toilet paper

[nickelbabyjesus]

i understand design assistant to be pretty high up the ladder too.
Design room assistant would indicate someone who assists in a design room, needs experience (or qualifications) in design or fashion, as would need to cut patterns or make CADs or something similar.

[Blackletterday]

everybodys a FARTY POOP [BEAR]

[Blackletterday]

EVERYBODYS A FARTY POOP

[nickelbabyjesus]

eh?

[Blackletterday]

Oh fgs bloody children sorry.

[flowery]

soggy14 Fri 07-Jan-11 12:54:24

"Is professional development and training unheard of in your profession?"



I thought I was being clear, apparently not. For those in doubt, here (again) is why I am not offering her a job anyway.

1. I don't have a role at present.
   
2. I have no idea whether she has the potential or is indeed actually interested in working in HR at all because her CV leads me to believe that is possibly not the case. If you want to help someone sell themselves you don't offer them a job just in case they happen to have the potential but have not sold it well! You instead give them feedback as I am going to do once I stop mning

[Heroine]

we-ll, if something in the application has got you to believe she is underselling herself - take advantage! If others might not see her abillity but you do, then all to the good!

writing a CV is an awful task expecially in the UK - if you write about how brilliant and passionate you are - its great in London, great in the states, but if you send it to regional businesses they can think 'overblown asshole, probably exaggerating' or even just 'obviously had some cv consultatnt inflate it'.

If your applicant has wide skills, and is adaptable rather than one-track career obsessive, chances are that in a small consultancy she wil be a better employee than someone who is less aware of other career directions.

If you think her CV could be better - tell her -when I was recruiting I got quite a lot of CVs from naive people who were obviously quite keen behind the scenes, and I would phone them up and tell them that it is OK to boast about prizes, about hobby projects etc and ask them to resubmit - many were outstanding candidates (some winning natiuonal prizes) who had been overlooked by other recruiters eg because their CV was too long, or wasn't skill-based, or they had worked for two years in a shop at college rather than a corporate intertnship.

With big companies picking up the cliched conformist applicants - you need to play a different game anyway.. so play it!

[flowery]

I don't have a role.
I don't see her ability particularly. I don't know either way because of her cv.
I have no problem with her changing career, but feel she could sell it better and have more success with her campaign as a result.
I am going to tell her.


What's the 'game' I need to play?

[Heroine]

It's reasonably likely I will need extra help during the next year, ... I may well have been keen to stay in touch and possibly offer her some work.

I know you are an HR person, but that doesn't mean you have to deny the implicationsof what you said in earlier communications..

[QuintessentialShadows]

Why would she do that, though, Heroine?

She received a speculative CV, and is keen to help the applicant with the wording. No doubt, she will receive plenty of (more)suitable applications once she advertises her position, next year when she is ready to do so!

Not that you need defending, Flowery.....

[MyrrhyBS]

Give her feedback, I think its a brilliant idea! I wish more companies would do it!

[Heroine]

oh yes! Why would anyone do anything for anyone?! I just speak as someone who was 'given a chance' by an employer who thought they wern't sure if I was committed - I more than doubled their sales income in nine months.. and got £200k worth of annual sales paid 12 months in advance sometimes is worth buying commitment by working with people who need developing :)

[flowery]

Heroine Fri 07-Jan-11 13:37:43
"It's reasonably likely I will need extra help during the next year, ... I may well have been keen to stay in touch and possibly offer her some work.

I know you are an HR person, but that doesn't mean you have to deny the implicationsof what you said in earlier communications.."

Sorry, don't really understand what you mean. When have I denied anything?? I don't have a role. Simple as that. I might do at some point in the future, but if at the time I get applications like this, I will not be nearly as likely to offer work to the individual concerned as I may be if it is approached slightly differently.

Do you know what? Scratch that. I'm not going to get drawn in. I've been more than clear and everyone should feel free to think I should offer non-existent jobs or am unprofessional or whatever they like! Knock yourselves out people.

[Heroine]

OK Ok you have convinced me you are HR! One point to make might be that if you had dropped a quick feedback e-mail that would have a) been appreciated and b) would have sent a positive message about you/your consultancy to her rather than agonising it would be job done!

[flowery]

Nope, don't understand that one either.

[Lulumaam]

DH has been recruiting and I was amazed at the number of CVs that were dropped in by the applicants MUM or the mum phoned to see if the jobs were still available, and if it was, they'd get their DC to drop a cv in

the best one was a mum who came in with the application & cv which basically consisted of a piece of blank A4, folded in half, with the applicants name, address & d.o.b and the name of their school with (private school) in brackets. And taht was it ! No qualifications or experience ...

I was all for calling them and saying, you know what , if you want a job, leave your mum out of it, grow up and do a proper letter etc and make some effort!


I was shocked TBH

[thumbwitch]

flowery - glad she asked for the feedback, hope you've managed to get the email sent off to her (in between responding on MN )

I have had some great feedback on interviews and one particularly helpful chap who received my "cold call" CV and covering letter (addressed to him by name, yes) who asked me to go and see him and then explained why it wouldn't be a good idea to chuck in the career I already had for a research assistant's post. I didn't necessarily agree with all his points, but it did make a difference to me!

Another interesting one was a long and involved phonecall from a lab - I hadn't got the job, the level of technical expertise they required meant that they didn't employ anyone - and chappy phoned me to bewail this! Not sure if he wanted me to say "look, ok, I'll do some intensive study and then apply again, what do you reckon?" or what his motivation was but he was obviously a bit pissed off that no one lived up to their expectations (which were ridiculously high for the grade they were offering).

Sorry, rambling - feedback = good. :)

[Heroine]

I am just saying don't debate - if offering feedback is in your head, drop a few lines to her saying whatever you like and stop worrying! Speculative CVs can be as weak as 'please sir I would like a job in your esteemed establishment' so if this is closer and only needs tweaking just say something like what you've said - 'Thanks for CV, it had some very positive qualities within in, and its clear that you are looking for a generalist position within HR. I hope you don't mind but I just thought I'd mention that you cv conveys wide competancies, but your skills are currently more general than I need. I also thought I also mention that at first reading, I think your cv would benefit from a clear statement about why you are suited to work in HR specifically, and perhaps even more clearly why you want to work in consultancy and an expression of the specific skills a consultant needs would add to that message. I don't have any specific role at the moment, and particularly not one that would suit a generalist offer, but I would be happy to reconsider you for future positions if you are able to address the points I mention above.

Thanks again for your interest in...

either 'I look forward to hearing' or nothing if you don't particularly want to invite a response.


sinples

[Heroine]

but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be a little tired of CVs that are too speculative - that's normal!

[flowery]

I have already done it, perfectly capable of coming up with what to say myself thanks Heroine. I wasn't looking for someone to provide wording for me, just input into whether people might welcome unsolicited offers of feedback. Not sure why you think that wasn't a debate not worth having, but there you go.

I have had that input from most people, which has been great, and I actually think it's turned into an interesting thread on spec applications more generally.

[QuintessentialShadows]

Flowery, Heroine is a newbie, she does not realize that you are our resident employment guru. She is just trying to be helpful.

[MmeLindt]

ROFL at the fartypoop contribution of Blackletterday's DC in the middle of this thread.

How old is your DS? I am assuming a DS, cause mine is 6yo and obsessed with rude words atm.

[nickelbabyjesus]

I checked her profile deliberately when that happened - i can't remember age, but i think it was about that...

[nickelbabyjesus]

DD of 7
DS of 4