to feel frustrated by this speculative cv I've received?

[flowery]

For those who don't know, I have my own HR consultancy business. I get sent speculative cvs from time to time.

I had one yesterday. I think it's great that the lady in question is being proactive about finding a job, rather than just flicking through the paper and registering with agencies etc. She's gone to the trouble of contacting lots of people and I commend it and am impressed by it.

However she's really not done herself any favours with her application. I think looking at it it could have been so much better and I think she will get much poorer results from her campaign than she should have got had she worded her email and cv differently.

It's reasonably likely I will need extra help during the next year, so although that's not now, had she done better with her application and convinced me more that she wanted a career in HR, I may well have been keen to stay in touch and possibly offer her some work.

I will obviously respond to her, but do you think I should offer feedback on her application or would that seem patronising and intrusive? I'm just frustrated on her behalf that she's gone to this effort and therefore has a certain amount of get up and go, but is not going to see the results she could.

[Takver]

Definitely give feedback - given that you don't need anyone at the moment it is particularly easy I would say to word it tactfully, since you're clearly not rejecting her personally, you're just not recruiting.

[UnquietDad]

If she is being professional she will accept your feedback in the spirit in which it is offered.

It can be very hard to get objective feedback on a CV - there is so much conflicting information out there. Often this comes down to the fact that people want one all-purpose CV to send out whereas, as you say, it should be tailored to each specific application.

[flowery]

AlpinePony I'm not really sure where all the nonsense about realms of HR has come from.

I think I made it clear that if I did have a role available, her limited experience (and no qualification in HR) wouldn't bother me particularly.

But yes I would rather recruit someone who actually wants to work in HR, of course I would, rather than someone who wants a job any job. Someone who is keen to work in the area and learn about the area is far more likely to do a good job at it!

Plus given that her email says she wants a career in HR, it would be better for her if her CV backs her up.

I've emailed her so let's see what she says.

[AlpinePony]

What I meant was she wants to work. As in put in the hours and get the job done. In my view someone who actually wants to do a job is more valuable than a lazy scroat with experience.

But I do think it's odd that you've chosen to bring it up on AIBU when you are supposedly the professional.

[flowery]

Well I would prefer someone who not only wants to work, but also wants to work in HR, and I think most recruiters would say the same.

I also can't see the problem with AIBU, but if you think I'm unprofessional so be it.

[LoveBeingADaddysGirl]

oh dear AP believe me flowery is so professional it's unreal, I have read her advice and used her advice for myself. I think you have taken this completly the wrong way.

All she is saying is that her cb doesn't sell her for the job she is asking for.

[LoveBeingADaddysGirl]

Cv

[Takver]

I don't see the problem with AIBU, its a good way of getting a quick response from a range of lay people (ie better than posting in Employment or similar).

I have to say I wouldn't want to employ someone who wasn't interested in what we do, even just for order packing.

[Lizzylou]

Flowery, yes you should give her some tips and point her in the right direction.

I do this often (am in Legal Recruitment) with people who send in spec CVs, especially those who I can't help but who need to rethink their approach.

[LoveBeingADaddysGirl]

Flowery out if interest do cv's sent on spec work? I thought they were a waste of time.

[flowery]

Thank you LoveBeing :)

Takver I did consider posting in Employment as that is obviously where I usually hang out, but I did want a quick response from 'normal' people who might be job hunting and could therefore tell me whether they would appreciate feedback. I didn't necessarily just want a professional view from other HR professionals (or alleged 'professionals' ) as to whether I should offer it.

In terms of spec cvs they don't usually work as if someone isn't recruiting (or about to recruit) for a suitable role, the whole 'we'll keep it on file' thing is pretty useless.

But as I say, her get up and go impressed me, and I am conscious I may need help this year so had I been more convinced by her application I would have kept in touch and born her in mind later. I think a small business such as myself is more likely to do that than a big company though. If someone is pondering recruiting possibly or is very impressed by the application spec applications can work I think.

[monkeyflippers]

I think you are being a bit picky actually. I have had to send out letters like that to get work and often send 200 at a time. If I were to research the name of the relevant person at each company and change my entire (which is what you are complaining about) cv to fit each job and company tt would take me absolutely ages to get them sent out.

[flowery]

Well it would take longer, yes. But I think she's far more likely to get a good response by tailoring her CV so in my view 100 cvs sent out that are a bit more tailored would have a greater rate of success than 200 completely general ones.

She'd only have to tailor it once for every application she sent out to HR companies anyway.

And my name is just as easy to find as my email address. Not always the case I know, but in my case it is. There's only me here!

[LoveBeingADaddysGirl]

If you were in an interview you would tailor your answer to the type of business won't you. Yes it nay take a little long butbif you do lots for one type of business then move onto another it's not like doing 10 different ones all at once. Tbh what's the point if it's not makig the person read think they want to employ you?

Flowery you have inspired me to do some spec ones myself.

[monkeyflippers]

I suppose for me it is easier as I work in one particular area although I did recently apply for some different type of jobs and tailored my cv to those but there were only a few.

I find though that it's not always possible to find the right name and then if I do use one it will go to that person whereas if I don't it will go to whoever in the department is looking at that particular time for someone who does the job that I do. So it increases my options. (Might like to add that I am very, very successful at getting work this way).

[MollysChambers]

Completely agree Flowery. Think you're being a bit kind suggesting she's put in a lot of effort if it's just a generic CV she's sent out. That's fine if her experience is relevant but it isn't. It's little more than a mail drop really.

I was a recruitment consultant for years btw so my working day revolved around CV's.

I would offer feedback in these circumstances. She may not welcome it though.

[flowery]

Absolutely agree monkeyflippers. You tailored yours where it needs to be different from your standard, but if it's normally the same sort of job you don't necessarily need to tailor it each time. That's especially true for spec applications rather than applications for specific advertised roles as well.

And yes you are right about the name, often that is the case. It's just in my case it really couldn't be easier!

[LoveBeingADaddysGirl]

Ok seeing as there are so many of you with experience, anything I shod know about spec cvs?

[rockinhippy]

I disagree with her not addressing you personally, rather than with Sir/Madam, yes its general, but I would presume that to be her either not being to presumptuous & keeping her application more formal, I don't see an issue with that bit

but otherwise, yes I would agree, & having been in your position I think it would be very helpful to her to have some feed back, I have taken the time & trouble to do exactly hat myself with applicants in the past, & been thanked for it, on the other hand, DH got down to the final stages in interviews for a job he really wanted & DIDN"T get any feedback, I suggested he ask, so to be better placed next time & he did send a polite note, but got no reply, shoddy IMO

& Alpine it may well NOT be her dream job, but if you REALLY want a job in any field, then you have to play the game & present yourself as if it is....others will,

[MmeLindt]

I would imagine that sending out 50 well researched and tailored CVs could be more successful than 200 generic CVs that will only get a cursory glance.

[MollysChambers]

LBADG - Yes, you really, really want a job with that company (or in that line of work/industry if you're sending to lots of companies) because....... and these are the skills that you have that are relevant....

It's pretty much that simple but you have to be willing to spend some time thinking about it. Helps to prepare you for interview as well.

[QuintessentialShadows]

I also sent out hundreds of applications back in my young job hunting days, and only when the penny dropped and I started tailoring cvs and cover letters to the actual job and company, did I start getting interviews.

I have spent a few years in HR, and as Flowery, have probably seen a few laughably unsuitable cvs, like the barrista who felt her sales experience and people skills would greatly benefit our sales department, selling business to business it systems. And not to mention the German Technical writer with a phd in nano technologies (or similiar) who thought the same.... (As I am not in that role now, I dont have to be as professional as Flowery, so have no qualms in smiling a little at this)

As a jobhunter, cv advice would be good, but for somebody wanting to work in HR, they should maybe given better thought to how they style their application in the first place?

[BlingLoving]

Flowery- i work in communications. And I get a lot of people coming to me to help them with their CVs. At first it surprised me but I've come to realise that a lot of people who are very good at what they do, go-getting, intelligent etc simply can't figure out how to tailor a written document for what they need.

I've often thought it is the kind of thing I'll add to my reportoire as a paid for service if and when I go freelance one day.

Similarly, I've sat through dozens of pitches for work on both sides of the fence - pitching and being pitched too - and it never ceases to amaze me how people that I know are competant, can so completely misread the brief provided, losing their audience within seconds. (Pitching training is also on my list of freelance services one day! )

[BlingLoving]

" If I were to research the name of the relevant person at each company and change my entire (which is what you are complaining about) cv to fit each job and company tt would take me absolutely ages to get them sent out." - yes but ideally you wouldn't have to send out as many.

I won't even engage with a sales person who rings me up to offer services to "your company" but clearly doesn't know my name or who I work for. My name, phone number and email address are splashed all over the internet. Log onto our company website and you'll find me, and 20 of my colleagues, with all our details, with about 3 clicks of the mouse.

[MollysChambers]

I remember offering feedback to someone once that went along the lines of:

Me - You've given your date of birth as XXXX. Is that correct?

Middle-aged Engineer - Umm yes.

Me - Right. You do realise that makes you 11 years old when you started your apprenticeship??

Him - embarrassed silence.

He'd shaved 5 years off his age but hadn't changed anything else on his CV. Doh!

BTW it was contract jobs I recruited for so age wasn't particularly an issue.