to feel frustrated by this speculative cv I've received?

[flowery]

For those who don't know, I have my own HR consultancy business. I get sent speculative cvs from time to time.

I had one yesterday. I think it's great that the lady in question is being proactive about finding a job, rather than just flicking through the paper and registering with agencies etc. She's gone to the trouble of contacting lots of people and I commend it and am impressed by it.

However she's really not done herself any favours with her application. I think looking at it it could have been so much better and I think she will get much poorer results from her campaign than she should have got had she worded her email and cv differently.

It's reasonably likely I will need extra help during the next year, so although that's not now, had she done better with her application and convinced me more that she wanted a career in HR, I may well have been keen to stay in touch and possibly offer her some work.

I will obviously respond to her, but do you think I should offer feedback on her application or would that seem patronising and intrusive? I'm just frustrated on her behalf that she's gone to this effort and therefore has a certain amount of get up and go, but is not going to see the results she could.

[rockinhippy]

LOl at the innapropriate (sp can't spell for toffee today)CVs.......I remember a few corkers when I was recruiting, 1 for an Assistant Designer, received a basic CV, with a very varied work history, NO fashion experience or training at all, but a covering letter said it was her dream job, & she had made herself some curtains so felt she would be an asset

[Takver]

LoveBeing, just for a bit of encouragement - as a 22 yr old recent grad I didn't know that spec CVs were supposed to be a waste of time, sent one off to a company I liked the look of, and got a job with them 2 months later . . .

I suspect they may be more appealing to small (and perhaps rather disorganised) businesses like the consultancy I joined, who don't have a 'process' to recruit people?

(I'm not sure my spec CV was that fabulous - the other woman recruited at the same time got the post by chatting to the directors when she was working in the local pub between jobs.)

[monkeyflippers]

rockinhippy - I think it's a little bit mean to laugh at these people who are looking for a job. The application you received just sounds like someone who has tried a few jobs and then realised what area she wanted to work in so applied for a job which is an "assistant" designer (not an actual designer, and as someone who works in this field I do understand what this means and involves) so she gave you the only experience that she thought might have been relevant which was making curtains, although not in a professional environment, does at least show some ability and interest. She may well have been suitable for an apprenticeship or work experience. In your position I would have suggested that she look for a course to do if I was unable to offer her the work experience.

[flowery]

I've certainly seen some corkers myself.

While we're talking general tips for spec applications, please don't get your Mum to ring up on your behalf, or indeed allow her to insist on doing so.

Obviously (one would hope) only applies to school leavers but that's one that used to irritate the hell out of me when I was responsible for recruiting to a work experience scheme.

Takver Fri 07-Jan-11 11:05:24
" I suspect they may be more appealing to small (and perhaps rather disorganised) businesses like the consultancy I joined, who don't have a 'process' to recruit people? "



Like to think I am fairly organised, but otherwise this applies to me. Likely to recruit in the fairly near future hopefully, so all a bit woolly at present, but more open to being impressed than those with a formal established procedure.

I think that's why I'm particularly frustrated on this lady's behalf -because I am precisely the type of person who is likely to respond positively to a decent spec application.

[LisasCat]

I'm recruiting for a role helping me at the moment, and had a couple of hopeless aplicants. One was an older gentleman who made no secret of the fact that the reason he was applying for this job is that it's closer to where he lives so will be easier to get to. He had absolutely no relevant experience, had never worked in any of the fields I'd requested as essential or desirable, but gave me a load of personal info about his family's situation and why he needed the money. I really, really wish he was the kind of person who followed up rejection letters to ask for feedback, because I think he could truly benefit from someone gently explaining to him why the job market right now is not quite the same beast he seems to think he's dealing with. I could have saved him so much further rejection. But he'd obviously applied to hundreds, and didn't have the time to ask them all why they said no.

The sad thing is, he's probably the kind of person who puts the fear into college graduates with that old line "I've applied for hundreds of jobs and never been offered an interview", not realising how much that is his own fault and not in any way indicative of what someone slightly more savvy in the job market is going to experience.

[TidyBush]

flowery I've sent you a PM.

[LoveBeingADaddysGirl]

Taker pmsl, maybe I should hang around the pub instead

[nickelbabyjesus]

I've often thought of offering CV and applications as a freelancer.
Kind of negates the point, though, in a way.

I've always had this nack of writing a good CV and covering letter, and honing it (sorry, tailoring it) to the job i'm after.
I don't know why, but I can just pull out the right words and phrases to show the relevant experience and skills.

I have helped a couple of friends do it, too, and they've always been offered interviews.
When I used to have to do it to get work, I was very frequently offererd interviews - never getting the job because I'm much better on paper! (i get very nervous and shy and never say the right things or I say the right things in the wrong way)

I think you should offer her feedback.

[flowery]

Well, good for her, she's just come back to me saying she would welcome feedback. Hoorah.

[QuintessentialShadows]

I am also definitely better on paper.

The SCARIEST job interview was at the British Museum. They changed the location of the interview, and got a janitor (or something) to come and get me. And I had to tip toe around a building site in heals and suit, only to be met with a very serious PANEL of three BM "Dignitaries" in a very high ceilinged room with dark wood panelling and impressive lighting.

The most informal was a small publishing house in West London, where I was greeted by a "Oh, look what the cat dragged in".

My most memorable one, was when asked "where do you see yourself in 10 years time" and I replied "Maybe in YOUR chair!" 2 months later on of his colleagues rang me and offered me a job as her assistant, saying I came highly recommended by her colleague". I had a fab job by then, and thought he must REALLY have it in for this colleague....

And not to forget the interviewer who was playing with her toy dinosaurs throughout the interview, while mournfully talking about a recently passed away British fiction writer (a favourite of mine, I must add) and the fantastic parties he used to throw.

my esteem for recruiters has just dropped a lot, thinking back.

[QuintessentialShadows]

Go Flowery!

[Lambzig]

I dont work in HR but do quite a bit of CV reviews and interviewing and I agree its annoying to get a generic CV. Just one thing that I would say about the "Dear Sir/Madam" thing is that I was taught that you should always address a letter to someone that you have not met with Dear Sir or Madam (obvs if you know which it is then just use the correct one). that might not be standard this days, but it is the formal approach, so it might just be that.

[nickelbabyjesus]

I was always taught you use title and surname unless you don't know the name - but I think yours is more formal, Lamzig - which is probably not appropriate for a job application. (imo)

When applying for jobs, I was taught that addressing the manager by his/her name shows that you care enough about that specific company to research it.

[flowery]

What nickel said. I would have put Dear Ms Beanbag myself. If it were purely an attempt on her part to be formally correct, she would have put just Madam.

[flowery]

I've just realised I dropped the beanbag part of my MN name so that probably sounded a bit random!

[nickelbabyjesus]

I was thinking that! i had to cast my mind right back, and thought "yes, i do remember flowerybeanbag"

[QuintessentialShadows]

I think sometimes it is difficult to know if the person behind the name is male or female, and then it is often safest to go for Dear Sir/Madam....

[ShoppingDays]

I would offer her the option to contact you for feedback.

[007alert]

I have always welcomed feedback from failed interviews. Most of the time I have been given useful information that has helped with future interviews, and sometimes I was told that there was other candidates with specific experience that I simply didn't have, so I didn't worry that I wasn't good enough for that job, it simply wasn't the right one for me.

However, I am currently trying to impress upon a friend how important it is to make your cv and application as relevant as possible to the post advertised. She has good qualifications and experience, but has been out of the workplace for a few years and doesn't yet seem to realise that she may really have to pull out all the stops to get a job of the calibre she wants. She tells me it's boring writing covering letters...

[nickelbabyjesus]

If I know the name but can't work out if it's male or female, I put "dear Flowery Beanbags" (not just "Dear Flowery" )

[rockinhippy]

rockinhippy - I think it's a little bit mean to laugh at these people who are looking for a job. The application you received just sounds like someone who has tried a few jobs and then realised what area she wanted to work in so applied for a job which is an "assistant" designer (not an actual designer, and as someone who works in this field I do understand what this means and involves) so she gave you the only experience that she thought might have been relevant which was making curtains, although not in a professional environment, does at least show some ability and interest. She may well have been suitable for an apprenticeship or work experience. In your position I would have suggested that she look for a course to do if I was unable to offer her the work experience.

not really monkeyflippers its human nature to have a little chuckle in such situations, I would of been unkind if I'd done it to her face, or completely ignored her application, as many would of, if you'd read my earlier response, you would of known that I did always give feedback

unless things have changed drastically in the few years since I've been out of that end of the business, I think you may be getting confused, a design assistant AKA assistant designer is quite a way up that particular career ladder, & job description & requirements & expectations were clearly stated in the ad, & if you are in the same business, then you will know that making a pair of curtains does NOT show ability & interest to design, probably pattern cut or at least direct & oversea the production of clothing samples & this instance it wasn't an application from a youngster, but a woman older than I was at the time, not that, that would of ruled her out, just meant she should of had more sense

perhaps you thought I meant design room assistant??, but even that requires training or experience


Good for you Flowery, its lovely to see people taking time & trouble to help someone else :)

[flowery]

I think you're right QS and in any doubt at all, I'd do what nickel said and put Dear Flowery Beanbag

However in my particular case my name isn't remotely ambiguous and I think I can safely say without being considered boastful that my picture indicates my gender fairly successfully.

[monkeyflippers]

rockinhippy- In the area that I work a design assistant is pretty much a dogsbody in a design office and would have no creative input initially (and for a long time) but would gradually learn on the job, possibly at the same time as doing a university design course in their own time etc. Pretty different to your experience of the job title and is in no way "quite a way up that particular career ladder". I think that answers why we didn't agree.

After I posted my last message though, I did remember when I was in my first job that we used to get quite a lot of members of the public sending in their "design ideas" which were usually make out of items you would find around the house such a pipe cleaners and tin foil. We used to put them up on the wall for amusement so I am completely hypocritical to say you were being mean.

[soggy14]

I don't get it - you seem to be saying that you think that she does have the potential but isn't selling herself well enough - so why not take her on and explain how she could sell herself? Is professional development and training unheard of in your profession?

[Feelingsensitive]

Give feedback. It can be done in an inviting way such as " Thanks for your interest but we are not recruiting at present. If you would like any feedback I would be happy to give....." I am looking for a job and have asked for feedback and been ignored so if someone were to offer it I would be delighted.