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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be mightily pissed off with the Royal College of Midwives' patronising attitude towards women?

60 replies

lowrib · 04/12/2010 01:01

There's an article in the Independent today about a report which shows that 1 in 6 women are still giving birth on their backs with their feet up in stirrups, a position rightly described in the article as ""physiologically inappropriate".
(unnecessarily excruciatingly painful might have been another good description).

This is the bit that's got my goat ...

"Mervi Jokinen, practice and standards adviser at the Royal College of Midwives, said the apparent high use of stirrups may have arisen from a misunderstanding by the women responding to the survey. "I am very sceptical how women perceived this. When you are suturing a woman she will have her legs in stirrups and she may see this as part of the birth,""

I'm sorry but we know the difference between giving birth and having a suture done! How patronising Angry She's heard something she doesn't like the sound of but instead of actually listening to the women in the survey she's dismissing their experiences because they must be a little confused, poor dears Hmm

It's a good thing though, because it reminds me I still need to get round to complaining about the midwife at my birth, who did insist that I was on my back with my feet in stirrups. She also refused to explain why this was necessary - despite me and DP repeatedly asking her. She made it impossible to fight against in the end by simply refusing to communicate with me if I was in another position. And this was in a labour when the 5 attempts at giving me an epidural all failed, so I was in absolute agony.

What are your experiences?

Have other people found they were encouraged onto their backs and into stirrups unnecessarily? I do hope not, as it was not something I'd wish on anyone but if there are a few I'd like to send this thread to this woman so she can see it does go on, and can perhaps look at what the Royal College of Midwives can do to stop this barbaric practice.

OP posts:
Idontknowhowtohelpher · 04/12/2010 08:35

This is the thread about midwives not listening - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/childbirth/1096390-Have-you-ever-been-told-by-a-medic-you-cant-possibly-be-in-labour-when-you-actually-are

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 04/12/2010 08:38

These stories are horrific :(

I am considering whether to try for a VBAC, and reading this is putting me off because I am sure they will insist on constant monitoring which will reduce my movement.

lowrib · 04/12/2010 08:41

I'm glad they work for some people, but no one should be encouraged into them against their wishes.

I think the real issue here is lack of communication and of respecting women's wishes, like the other thread (thanks for the link).

And possibly a competence issue? I believe that I was on my back because it was easier for the midwife, I think she didn't feel confident monitoring me if I was up and about (Although like I said I could be wrong - she didn't tell me so I can only guess).

OP posts:
Unrulysun · 04/12/2010 08:43

I really feel for those on here who were made to do this. I couldn't stand being on my back - I was even begging them to examine me standing up because the two minutes it took were such agony :( .

I think it's probably about monitoring being easier in that position. You're right though - what a bloody patronising statement.

emmie31 · 04/12/2010 08:45

I had a VBAC and it was brilliant, even though I ended up with forcepts at the end it was so much better than my c section and the recovery was so speedy! My mid wife was lovely, the only reason I was pushing while on my back was that turning over was more painful for me. Id do it again it was a lovely experience.

lowrib · 04/12/2010 08:46

Alibabaandthe40nappies don't be scared, although it happens I don't think it's the norm, thankfully

I deliberately didn't post this in childbirth because I'm not trying to scare people!

All the other midwives I met were brilliant. If the first one stayed with me I wouldn't have been in that situation I'm sure.

If I do it again, my birth plan will be fairly simple. I will insist that the midwife understands and supports active labour (most do I think). If I get any sign she wants me on my back without a good reason I will ask for another midwife, straight away. You are entitled to change midwife. For us, it was Christmas and so very short staffed but I think it would have been more feasible to change midwives on a more normal day.

OP posts:
emmie31 · 04/12/2010 08:47

Alibaba forgot to add that I wasn't monitored all the time, i thought i'd be strapped to a machine constantly but I had baths, birthing ball everything that somebody that hadn't had a c-section would have.

maktaitai · 04/12/2010 08:51

God I'm truly Shock that so many are being forced into stirrups. I'd agree that the statement is pretty rubbish, and doesn't argue she's a great advocate for women.

Stirrups as an option clearly brilliant - I know at least one woman who swears by them. But to be forced into a position you don't want to be in...? oh God.

HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly · 04/12/2010 08:51

They made me stay on my back.

From 9am until nearly 8 pm when they pulled him out of me and gave hm erbs palsy.

They told me I had to stay on my back and not move around because he was being constantly monitored with that clip thing they hook to the baby's head.

second time round they made me stay on my back after an epidural.

There was no misunderstanding. I asked to move - said I wanted to walk around - and was told I couldn't. They made me lie there the whole day.

altinkum · 04/12/2010 08:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lowrib · 04/12/2010 08:55

HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly (Hecate?) I'm sorry to hear that, that's shocking Sad

OP posts:
lowrib · 04/12/2010 08:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

MistressMaker · 04/12/2010 09:02

YANBU!

Awful, I'm so sorry for all of you who were forced into this.

I did give birth in stirrups but had ventouse then forceps delivery so I believe they were appropriate in this case.

I completely echo how difficult they made the birthing experience though. Just after they put my legs in them then wheeled out the ventouse the consultant came up to me and said "now this process is 80% you and 20% the machine" and I wondered how the hell that was going to work because I'd been pushing for 1.5 hours, was exhausted and now in a position which meant I practically had to push 'uphill'!

No wonder it ended up in forceps!

TheMeow · 04/12/2010 09:45

I didn't have stirrups but the gas and air I was on meant I couldn't stand/sit/kneel as I was practically unconcious. All I could do was lie on my back and dh has said that he had to keep telling me breath or I wouldn't do it and he also had to keep hauling me up the bed and moving my legs up. I vaguely remember someone saying that "You'll never get this baby out in that position".

I didn't find it that hard though and ds was born after about half and hour of pushing. I think the fact that I was on auto pilot meant that my body did what is needed to on it's own (except for breathing). I was never told to push, my body just did it, although I do remember the mw telling dh to take the gas and air off me as I needed to wake up a bit (it didn't happen, no one was going to take that off me!)

LostInTransmogrification · 04/12/2010 09:52

I tried all the positions discussed by yoga teacher and Nct group for helping baby out. Five hours of pushing later and still no baby. MW suggested trying stirrups, I finally had the leverage I needed to really push and twenty minutes later ds appeared. Was Confused as I had been told over and over that the position was terrible, but it worked great for me!

FunkySnowSkeleton · 04/12/2010 10:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BonniePrinceBilly · 04/12/2010 10:13

I've had 3 births and was in stirrups for the first 2. Oddly enough the last one was the only one without intervention, tearing or complications in the baby. Hmm

FetchezLaVache · 04/12/2010 16:00

I gave birth in stirrups by my own choice, despite being absolutely determined beforehand that I wouldn't at any price! Midwife was fantastic, labour was pretty long, I was pushing for ages and she kept moving me into different positions to see which one worked for me, and that was it.

Didn't tear, so didn't need stitches. However, I agree it's completely patronising to suggest that a large proportion of women wouldn't recognise the difference between giving birth and being sutured afterwards.

HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly · 04/12/2010 16:35

Yes, lowrib, tis Hecate.

name and shame? sure - hemel hempstead.

We sued. They yanked on his head and left him with a lifelong disability.

OmniaParatus · 04/12/2010 16:55

Hec I was also asked to lie on my back due to monitoring difficulties, DS ended up stuck and got Erb's Palsy on delivery too (his was not as serious though, couldn't tell after 8 months of physio for which I am thankful). So sorry for what happened to you Sad.

I was forced onto my back to deliver DD too, MW insisted as I'd had previous shoulder dystocia. I think she just thought that this was the only 'safe' position as it gave maximum room. This is actually not true, but perhaps this is still official policy so most mw's prefer you to be like this. If they are not listening to this survey though I see very little chance of that changing. Would be nice if it did though, DC3 is due in March!

HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly · 04/12/2010 17:00

I am really glad that your son made a full recovery. Very many do, thank goodness. Sadly, my son's nerve damage was severe. Although he's had ops and with years of physio (which we still do daily) he's got rather good function!

Bastards though. 7 years that case took. Then they settled with weeks to go before court.

It's scary just how many people this has happened to. Most of the babies make a full or good recovery - but it shouldn't be happening.

the doctor who did this to my son started screaming!! "Help me, Help, I need help!" before half yanking his head off. Bitch.

plasticface · 04/12/2010 17:08

I was put in stirrups after a 50 hour labour and an hour of pushing. I was really out of it and kept falling asleep leaning against the back of the bed (on my knees)in between contractions. I think they put my legs in stirrups as I was too knackered to hold them apart myself, and then ended up using forceps. My baby is healthy and happy and so am I! I couldn't care less what they did to me at the time!

curlymama · 04/12/2010 17:10

I am truly shocked to read all these stories.

When I was in labour the first time the MW made my lie one my back alot of the time to be monitored, but allowed me to be kneeling for the actual birth. lying on my back made the whole thing so much more painful for contractions, I can't imagine what it would have been like for the actual delivery. She would have made me stay on my back though if my ex hadn't been so firm with her.

For my second delivery which took place in an ambulance, I told the paramedic I wanted to be kneeling. He was a bit scared to let me do it that way bless him, but I think he was also too scared to argue! He did a fantastic job of delivering my baby, and he had only done 5 deliveries before mine. If a very inexperienced paramedic can manage a delivery in whatever position the woman chooses, I can't understand how a specially trained midwife can't do it.

plasticface · 04/12/2010 17:10

Sorry if that sounds smug or anything, I just read the previous post. I didn't mean it to.:(

HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly · 04/12/2010 17:15

Grin, what, after my post? nah, you sounded fine.