to wonder why non-Christians celebrate Christmas

[MissMashMissMash]

Am not trying to offend anyone here but am interested to know what others think.

I often think that if I wasn't a Christian I wouldn't celebrate Christmas as it wouldn't mean anything to me. I just don't really why people spend so much time, money and stress on something which is meaningless to them.

As it is I don't actually spend much money at Christmas as it isn't about that for me. If it was completely meaningless for me I would just treat it as any other day I think, not sure though what do others think?

[piscesmoon]

All cultures have festivals of light-it is needed to brighten up the darkest months.

[emptyshell]

You can't flipping avoid it.

I'd gladly ignore and obliterate Christmas this year but the wretched thing is like a plague of nits in a primary school and inescapable.

[Psammead]

Well, I'm in it for the presents :)

[amijee]

I grew up in a family that didn't celebrate it and I can tell you...it was horrible. I couldn't join in any of the conversations at school about what you got for christmas and what people did etc.

My DH and I are atheists but we celebrate christmas, halloween, diwali, eid etc etc. I think it's more about culture than religion - and anyone who wants it to be more religious usually do other things like go to church/mass etc.

Primarily, though, I think these things are more for kids than adults and we do a lot for them.

[piscesmoon]

DHs Jewish colleagues celebrate it to a lesser extent-they are forced to be off work-the office is closed-TV is dominated by it. We are a Christian country-despite people's individual beliefs. There is a rich, historical culture. People are quite free to do it in a secular way-most do.

[AMumInScotland]

"Why do Christians celebrate so many aspects of the pagan winter festival?"

I think it's because the pagan aspects of the festival are actually quite fundamental to humanity - light, warmth, continuity, sharing food with your family/clan/tribe - and those have always appealed to people. So, when Christianity decided to have its main festival at the same time of year, people wanted those kinds of things. Christians wanted them for the same reasons as pagans wanted them, and the same reasons they are still popular today. Because they are fundamental to our hopes and fears and priorities as human beings.

Christianity didn't pop into existence in a vacuum, so it was easy for the early church to build on the symbolism that people already accepted and just added its own flavouring on top.

I've always thought the Mithras links were fascinating, and that's speaking as a Christian! Mithras symbol was also a dagger or sword, and there's a theory that's why the Christian cross looks like that rather than an X-shape.

[lowrib]

What a thoughtful post AMumInScotland.

[MissMashMissMash]

What about Christmas carols? A lot of the lyrics are quite heavy and talk about death, satan, sinners etc. How easy is it to sing these if you don't believe any of it?

[BonniePrinceBilly]

I think most atheists believe in death actually.

Its easy, we don't sing the religious ones. Or we sing them without believing the sentiment.

[BelleDameSansMerci]

Oh, Christmas Carols (speaking as a sort of pagan - don't really like that term) are lovely. How can anyone resist? I can sing all sorts of songs without believing the lyrics ie love songs.

Not all Christmas songs are carols or religious in sentiment although I don't expect that's true of the ones you'd get in church.

And, FWIW, pre-DD I did used to go to the Midnight Service as it's just lovely.

[TheCoalitionNeedsYou]

MissMashMissMash - I can sing along to the national anthem without being patriotic, and AC/DC songs without being a priapic antipodean. Singing is fun.

[lowrib]

"MissMashMissMash - I can sing along to the national anthem without being patriotic, and AC/DC songs without being a priapic antipodean. Singing is fun."

[StuffingGoldBrass]

ONe of the more amusing things aobut Christianity is it's the most plagiaristic of all the superstitions - basically a rebranding of other myths from start to finish (the sacrificed deity who rises again - think Osiris, Odin, the various Corn Kings...). I often wonder if this is why it attracts such a high percentage of ig-ignorant, irrational whiners who can;t stop stamping their feet and squawking when other people refuse to cut a slice of cake for their imaginary friends.

[lowrib]

Christmas carols are lovely. They remind me of good memories at primary school, and other lovely times when I was little. Singing them makes me feel all nostalgic and christmassy (and I love Christmas). I'm really going to enjoy teaching them to DS.

But as an atheist I don't have to believe something to enjoy singing about it! It's just like any other fictional story to me. They're special to me because of the associations.

[BitOfFun]

My mum was telling me about a little boy the school she taught at. The teachers were explaining that they would be practising their Christmas songs that afternoon, and went through Away In A Manger, When Shepherds Watch Their Flocks, O Little Town Of Bethlehem etc etc.

At the end of the singing practice, he piped up "Awww, you said we were going to do Christmas songs! All we've done is baby Jesus!"



I'm not sure what he was expecting...Walking In A Winter Wonderland or something? We did laugh.

But to the OP- of course people want to celebrate Christmas if they aren't religious. It's just a bit of va va voom in the middle of a dreary winter.

[TheCoalitionNeedsYou]

I'm not sure you can say Christianity is the MOST plagarstic. The Romans tended to just rebadge whatever they came across and fit it in to the existing pantheon.

[StuffingGoldBrass]

Perhaps I should have said 'most plagiaristic of the myths that some people still take seriously'.

[gingerwig]

Because it's fun?

[TheCoalitionNeedsYou]

It depends on if you count the Old Testatment as one steal from Judaism, or if it inherits all the places that religion got it's myths from.

[POFAKKEDDthechair]

'ONe of the more amusing things aobut Christianity is it's the most plagiaristic of all the superstitions - basically a rebranding of other myths from start to finish (the sacrificed deity who rises again - think Osiris, Odin, the various Corn Kings...). I often wonder if this is why it attracts such a high percentage of ig-ignorant, irrational whiners who can;t stop stamping their feet and squawking when other people refuse to cut a slice of cake for their imaginary friends.'


Perhaps it is because Christ was the only one to preach the revolutionary power of social justice, unconditional love, forgiveness and tolerance SGB, but don't let that little fact muddy your stereotyped crap that you spout repeatedly here.

[TheCoalitionNeedsYou]

POFAKKKEDDthechair - THe only one out of whom? Quite a lot of people have preached those things. And even if the theory is strong, the execution has had limited success over the last 2000 years or so.

[BonniePrinceBilly]

If you believe in christ he may or may not have been the first to teach those things. Pretty doubtful though, what with the rather large amount of god figures that went before.

Can't stand an arrogant Christian, trying to make everything theirs......god job most don't.

[StuffingGoldBrass]

'Jesus Christ' like Robin Hood or King Arthur, is a mythical figure. There would have been one or two local heroes whose doings got conflated together in a myth cycle, that's all. Some of the blokes whose stories made up the Christian myth cycle may well have been into love peace and charity, but (given the way this and all the other superstitions have tended to turn out) they were slightly outnumbered by the misogynistic, homophobic, anti-intellecual, infidel-bashing control freaks.

[POFAKKEDDthechair]

Oh god SGB you are a perfect example of ignorance not stopping someone spouting off.

coalition, who preached all those things before Christ?

[AngelsOnHigh]

Does anyone have DC who believe in Santa?
Was in a conversation with a group of "litle sewers" and their mums.

One mum with a 4 year old said. NO, we don"t believe in Santa Clause. A seven year old asked why and the mum replied "We don't believe in telling lies to our children".

I started to wonder if she meant all lies or lies specifically about Santa.

Her DC goes to a christian school so she obviously believes the "Christmas story".

Anyway I believe that Christmas is a holy time and truely believe in peace on earth and goodwill to all men.

I'm a bit down at the moment because of the NZ mining tragedy and at 9.pm OZ time (that's in 10 minutes time) I will be lighting a candle for the lost 29 souls, may they rest in peace.

My faith in God is a comfort to me at this time because the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.