Granddad telling kids Irish jokes

[SulisMum]

DS (aged 9) told me an Irish joke last night which he had got from his granddad. I gave him a little talk about how it wasn't nice to make jokes about different nationalities and suggested he didn't repeat it - but only after I'd laughed about it with him. (I actually laughed involuntarily as it was a reasonably funny joke).

DS's response was that his granddad had also told him a joke in which the Englishman was made to look silly.

Questions for the MN jury?

How would you deal with your DC telling jokes based on national stereotypes?
Should I tell my dad not to furnish DS with more similar Englishman/Scotsman/Irishman jokes?
Should I be flamed for laughing?

I suppose like many things humour and what people find funny is subjective.

I didn't find the guy that made a loud,'BOOM' noise in my right ear very funny. He said it was the sound of a bomb going off, looked most pleased with himself and thought it was totally hilarious.

which is exactly why I said jokes like this or sayings don't tend to bother me, I look more for intent.
So Omid Djalili, Chris Morriss, Chris Rock, infinite amounts of comedians etc. all make jokes which are based on race and can be construed as racist. What I consider to be jokes about race/racism or jokes about race/racism others will view as being pure racism thinly veiled by humour to make it socially acceptable.
I can also see why my attitude of looking at intent is problematic. Forstly because intent is so subjective. If I have a predisposition to like someone I will give them the benefit of the doubt and presume they are either harmless or without malice or even that they are satirising the constructs and notions of racism by parodying them thus highlighting their ridiculousness. If I dislike the person already chances are I'll be more likely to think "racist twat".
But also there is the danger of even if that person has no malice or racist intent, normalising or civilising such jokes and sayings can have far reaching impacts as it gives true racists a veil with which to cover themselves and may impress upon younger people distorted views which they did not recognise as satire/subversive or dark humour.

*or jokes based on race/racism

Yes, but Father Ted uses lots of Irish stereotypes to great effect for humour because most of them have a grain of truth in them. There are lots of Irish women-of-a-certain-age who can't take no for an answer when offering visitors tea, for example. If you want to make a joke about that, fire away.. I won't take offence.

If you make a joke about Germans hogging the poolside, people laugh because there is a grain of truth in it: they recognise it.

However, if your jokes are about the "thick" Irish, what's the underlying belief? Where's the grain of truth that makes everyone smile?

TnOg, I have looked up the origin of "throwing a paddy" on the interwebby thing and nobody is very sure whether it is anti-Irish or not. There is a rumour that it is connected to the concept of a padded cell, so, it possibly means having a meltdown bad enough to get put in one.

I wouldn't be too concerned about this sort of joke but wouldn't encourage it, tbh.

Don't the French make jokes about the Belgians being thick ?

steady on wats!

I am Irish & i wouldn't take offence tbh , its only a joke

I agree, arses, it's the 'grain of truth' element that makes the distinction. When you can recognise an element of truth in the joke and there's a shared sense of our common human frailty(!) involved, then it would be difficult to take offence. Usually that kind of humour is genuinely funny too, as in the Mrs Doyle stereotype that everyone who has ever visited an Irish house or had an Irish granny / aunt would recognise.

It's when jokes are used to attack and dehumanise others that they are problematic. That's what concerned me about the OP's original story. Is this the only impression her DCs are getting about Ireland and Irish people? Don't they have any Irish friends? Have they been to Ireland? If not, then I think it's incredibly harmful that the only knowledge they have about the country / people is as the butt of a joke, and one that involves a nasty racist cliche at that.

I'm with Gibbon. Ask my mother if she thinks they're funny. She came here when jokes like that were told by people who had signs in their windows saying no blacks, no dogs, no Irish.

We've moved past all that I thought. And do Germans find the towel on sun lounger thing funny?

"That's what concerned me about the OP's original story. Is this the only impression her DCs are getting about Ireland and Irish people? Don't they have any Irish friends? Have they been to Ireland?"

The answer to this, I'm afraid, is no. Not because I have an Irish prejudice but because we just don't know any Irish people in particular.

But we do have friends of other nationalities/ethnic groups and I would like to stress that the joke came from a grandparent, and that the DC aren't being fed "nasty racist cliches" at home.

I'd never realised that "thrown a paddy" was possibly of Irish derivation btw.

How sad that a nine year old child is being brought up to laugh at others because of their nationality.
Even sadder that you think it's funny.

YABU. If your child grows up with no sense of humour, he/she will find it very difficult to socialise. Most jokes are based on ridiculing someone else, that tends to be what makes them funny.

Don't worry about your DS thinking that this is what Irish/Pakistani/Nigerian/whoever are really like. It's a joke. It's ok to laugh :)

Indeed, FlookCrow! Let's just ridicule everyone indiscriminately because it will help our social skills! There's equality in that, surely? Why stop at the Irish? The Nigerians? The Asians? What about the disabled? Kids with special needs? Rape victims?

I mean, to get on with people you have to ridicule others so it would be best to have a pop at a wide range to develop a proper conversational repertoire, wouldn't it?

Yes arses, so glad you got the point I was making.

Arses - do you ever watch or listen to comedy, esp. some of the more alternative stuff?! A large proportion of it is based on ridicule, and it's very funny - but comedy is subjective, and what makes me laugh won't necessarily make you laugh; what I find offensive may be OK to you and vice versa. That's what's so great about comedy - you can't legislate for it, nor can you be prescriptive.

"How sad that a nine year old child is being brought up to laugh at others because of their nationality.
Even sadder that you think it's funny."

Curryfreak - I did not say that. Neither DH or I tell jokes based on nationality. In fact, I don't really tell jokes at all. It was my FATHER who told him the joke and in the OP I was asking for feedback on how to deal with it.

Op. you may not have told the joke, but you are complicit because you didn't tell your father it was completly unnacceptable.
You also said that you laughed at the 'joke' with your son.
I think that says it all really!

curryfreak

I haven't told me father that it was unacceptable because I haven't spoken to him since DS told me the joke. (DS was with him at the weekend and only told me the joke yesterday.)

I agree I laughed at the punchline - but I laughed because it was silly. Not because I am anti-Irish.

Would you suggest that I cut off relations with grandfather with immediate effect?

I'd suggest that if you really feel strong about racist jokes being plain wrong (and i have my doubts that you do) then you tell your father, that you dont want your son subjected to this vile crap. There you go, is that simple enough for you?
What i'd also suggest is that you dont come on here pretending to feel all offended about said 'joke' and then confound the offence by re-telling it.