to think that we NEED libraries? This is horrific.

[StuckInTheMiddleWithYou]

Would MN like to run a campaign on this?

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/terence-blacker/terence-blacker-hands-off-our-public-libraries-2057131.html

May I join this thread? I am chair of LLL, which is the umbrella group for library campaigns in London. I work with colleagues all over the country as well. We desperately need Mumsnet readers to help make our voice be heard and to save libraries that may be threatened with closure in the forthcoming budget round. Please make contact through my own blog, which is hosted by my cat, Perkins. At present we are fighting closures in Lewisham and Doncaster in the fear that these two are fore-runners of a whole lot more library closures that will follow them. Many thanks... Tim Coates

how we find you, tim? can you put a link?

Sorry, I should have said that the url for my blog is www.goodlibraryguide.com/blog Tim Coates

Radio 4 next Tuesday 9am - 'What's the point of the Public Library'

Blurb from website - 'Question: Where can you go to reduce your fear of crime, have a massage, ring a church bell, get some information about council tax, and engage in some heavy petting without being told off?

Quentin Letts is surprised and sometimes disheartened by the answer; a library.

Of course, you can borrow a book as well, but campaigners argue that - with some authorities spending less than ten per cent of their library budgets on books -something has gone very wrong with the way the service is being managed.

Public Libraries have come a long way since Manchester opened the first in the 1850s. But where is the service going? Gleaming new buildings have opened in Newcastle, Whitechapel and Brighton - but more than 80 other libraries have been closed in the last five years; an age of public spending cuts surely means more.

Former poet laureate Sir Andrew Motion, campaigner Tim Coates and Arts minister Edward Vaizey join Quentin Letts as he asks, what's the point of the public library?'

Is this programme live Tim or pre-recorded? I'm looking forward to listening.

The programme was recorded a few weeks ago.

My view is that there are fundamental management problems with the service- the market for what it can provide is enormous, but much of what it offers is unattractive and narrow. There is absolutely no shortage of funding, but too much money is spent on the wrong things. No one is charge and no one takes responsibility for what it achieves or fails to do.

haven't had time to catch up with the thread yet today, so apologies if anyone has already posted a link to this on BBC website today.

Hmm I'd like to see exactly how they arrived at those figures. They're preparing the way for massive cuts.

Hi Tim... how do I post something on your blog to alert you (or your cat) to the proposed closure of our local library in Hammersmith and Fulham please? I have a hprrible feeling the whole thing is a done deal, but I can't bear the idea of not fighting it at all. We are just trying to work out our strategy for fighting it and would welcome some tips from any organisation that might be able to help.... thanks so much.

The problem is that 'management failures' can be a moniker for, 'let's use that as a justification to cut public services...'

Will listen to the program, but hope failures in the library services aren't used as a green light to close libraries.

perhaps a maudlin type campaign where people say in 30 seconds what a library means to them.

Hello again all, Are any of you based in or around Cheltenham? If so you might be interested in my plans. In my earlier post I mentioned that I live in Gloucestershire and we received news recently that our book budget is going to be cut by 40%...yes 40%! for the whole county and that is BEFORE the further ConDem cuts are imposed in the Autumn. Contrary to what Tim says there is NOT "plenty of funding" for our libraries and it is set to get worse. While the council told the local newspaper "for the last five years the council has spent, on average, almost £1 million a year on stock" it failed to tell it that the recent years budget is actually only £556,477 making a cut of £209,500 far more significant than they would have us believe! For a county of our size that is certainly not plenty of funding and this is just the start I fear. I am yet to learn from the council why they are having to make such a drastic cut and where it is going. With these worries in mind I am setting up a Friends of Cheltenham Library Group as currently there is no-one to ask these questions, hold the council to account or to protect our precious library. If any of you are interested in being involved in this or have any questions I have registered my details on "The Library Campaign" website www.librarycampaign.com/LocalGroups and am hoping they will be posted on there in the next few days (I have only just registered our group with them). Please feel free to contact me. Also, if you live in Glos but not Cheltenham and are interested in setting up a similar group at your library so we have a network across the county please also feel free to get in touch. The council need to know we are watching them!
I hope to hear from some of you soon. :)

or of course you can contact me here via "contact poster"

orangina.. if you post a comment on www.goodlibraryguide.com/blog I'll email you. Is it Baron's Court library that is proposed to be closed? I can help with some ideas. It won't be a done deal quite yet but we need to be quick. You need also to assemble any friends you can. Tim

Bolibify.. same as above. If you post a comment on my blog (www.goodlibraryguide.com/blog) I'll email you and explain what I meant by there being plenty of funding. There is a set of comments on the Bookseller site about cuts to Gloucestershire library service. The Bookseller site is free admission www.thebookseller.com Tim

Thanks Tim,
You may not have seen my original post a few pages back stating that I am an academic librarian (however, I am setting up this group as a public library user) therefore, I do keep up with the goings on across the sector and what is happening in the media and I am familiar with your views. Thanks for pointing out The Bookseller, I saw it before and am grateful to them for highlighting the real impact of the cuts rather than the information reported in the local paper www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/news/Cuts-library-stock/article-2500312-detail/article.html They asked the right question but we have plenty more.

Hi all,

Just wanted to say thanks very much to Mumsnet for supporting the library service. I know everyone who works in libraries really appreciate your support during a time of proposed closures.

I would just like to point out one thing in relation to today's reports. The figures that have been used in the media regarding library visits comes from a recent DCMS report. This report was deeply flawed. Those surveyed were asked when was the last time they 'used the public library service'. This rather implies actually visiting the library itself which is what most people would think of when confronted with this question. They were only told that this included accessing services remotely (ie through the library website, via email etc) if the participant asked for an explanation of what this question meant. It is fair to assume that most people wouldn't ask this question as it implies visiting the library. If it was explained at the outset what 'the public library service' included, I am sure there would be a very different result.

Sadly, this is simply an attempt to soften us up for cuts by pointing to flawed surveys. May I also add that book issues were up last year across the UK for the first time in years, and visits to the library website have increased by 50%. Contrary to stories of decline, the actual statistics tell a very different story.

"Those surveyed were asked when was the last time they 'used the public library service'."

Apologies, that should read they were asked if they had used the library service...not when they last used it.

Wasn't impressed by the bbc news coverage at 1pm today of these plans, it aimed to be balanced but was rather simplistic and seemed to end with the suggestion that libraries in pubs and supermarkets were a good idea, as they'd be more widely used. Not very incisive!
Actually, I'm not against libraries in either pubs or supermarkets- if they were IN ADDITION TO the libraries we already have- how can a toddler go into a pub fgs?! Also in terms of supermarkets, I would go to the library as a way of escaping being in yet another bloody shop- it's just about one of the only spaces in the world these days where they are not trying to sell yuou something! Shows there is still some hope left for us all as human beings as opposed to consumers.
As an aside, could Ed Vaizey be any more of a public school clone?! I'm guessing the libraries he is used to have oak panels and leather bound books.
plongy Alan Gibbons writes brilliant books for kids and works so hard on this issue!
So, are MN going to take up the campaign? What more can we all do?

Public libraries are an amazing resource for Mums and their children. Their imminent demise is a shocking fact. Having seen how effective Mumsnet has been in raising important issues and engaging with politicians, I sincerely hope there'll be a vigorous Mumsnet CAMPAIGN to challenge what is happening to the library service. Otherwise not only our children, but generations to come will be dealt a very raw deal indeed.

what does it take for mn to start a campaign?

At Oxford Ed Vaizy, according to Wiki, 'rose to the rank of Librarian (Vice President) of the Oxford Union.' This is perhaps not as ironic as it sounds as there is a fee to join the Union and use the library (walls and ceiling hand-painted by the Pre-Raphaelites).

The pub library, shown on the BBC just before 7am yesterday, was a tall-ish and not very wide bookshelf, labelled 'library'.

i saw that, the landlord/librarian said he did not have more space for books, imagine him doing rhyme time for the babies?

Hi Tim, thanks so much for that. Sorry, I was offline last night. I'm having difficulty getting onto the link you mentioned, but I'm still trying (firefox problems?). Yes, it is Baron's Court Library. We have a team of people together to get to work on it, and realise that simply petitioning etc isn't going to do it (though petitioning and leafleting is going full steam ahead at the moment).

Really can't get through to the website, let alone the blog. Any other way to contact you please? Thanks!

Orangina

Thanks-- yes my site seems to have gone down.

There are 2 people who matter: the elected leader of the council and the councillor on the cabinet who holds the portfolio for libraries. Effectively, whatever else is said, these are the two people who will decide and will have to balance the political pressure you place them under against the momentum that is behind their programme to close the library. Therefore it is important to identify who they are and make sure they know the scale of the public feeling. The other people who can help if they are onside are your own ward councillors. I am aching to give you my email address but I am frightened to do it on here publicly... is there a way you can send me yours.... Tim

There is a big national campaign for public libraries which is about to launch in the next month. It will be called "Voice for the library" and it will be a not-for-profit Community Interest Company essentially to provide information about activity to both the public and to councils. It would really help if I knew that Mumsnet would work with us on that and I can give a full briefing of what is planned. We are preparing presentations at the moment. tim

Tim,

If you could provide me with some information about the "Voice for the Library" campaign, please email me at [email protected]

(and any other info you have that would be useful for the Doncaster campaign re: contacting relevant members of the council)