so, what IS a 'Mickey Mouse' degree?

[lemonysweet]

inspired by the thread about whether youd like your child to go to uni.

go on then, what degrees do you consider 'Mickey Mouse'

[personally i would never be so throwaway about something someone had invested so much time, effort and money into, but im interested in others opinions]

fransandisco

I have just re registered to finish my OU degree in Childhood and Youth studies. When people ask me what I am studying they glaze over and say 'um lovely' or similar.

I think they assume my degree is in changing nappies and singing nursery rhymes.

All that pyschology, child development, history, biology, economics, sociology, politics, philosophy..etc etc dont count I suppose

I need a degree because I dont have any qualifications. I have loads of experience but am in a field where everyone has a degree. They may have a degree in geography but are still percieved as being better qualified than I am.

I don't understand why it's relevant whether or not someone had to work hard? Why do people keep saying 'but it was hard work'? Not being arsey, genuinely don't understand the point - how does how difficult you found the course relate to the course's intellectual standard?

There are different reasons for getting a degree though.

In some fields of employment, they're seen as a test of intelligence. An employer knows that someone who has a first class Oxbridge degree is probably clever. What the degree is in is probably of less relevance.

Some professions need a very particular degree - there's not much getting around the requirements if you want to be a teacher, lawyer or doctor.

Some professions can work well with work experience (hotel management, acting, personal trainer, games programming) but getting a degree can give you that leg up - particularly work experience or contacts which can be difficult to get in some fields. (A good acting course for example will have a showcase at the end where agents are invited to talent-spot.) These degrees probably don't have much traditionally academic work (research, philosophy, questioning etc.) but should teach what you need for a career.

Everything else is pretty much hedging your bets. I don't particularly see the point in doing 'English' or 'Geography' or similar at a middling university. It's fun and it's a degree, but most jobs that want it will probably prefer you to have four years of relevant work experience.

The US system is much tougher imo. It's almost impossible to work in academia without a PhD and most employers at managerial or professional levels seem to call for both a degree and years of work experience. Makes it tough for people like me who are a bit jack-of-all-trades or have moved around a lot.

I am often found to rant on this subject - and it is genuinely not out of elitist snobbery (oh alright maybe a bit).

It is ludicrous notion that half of teenagers should go to university and then expect degrees to represent a sign of excellence or high achievement. Some children just shouldn't go.

What is wrong is that culture has changed to place an intrinsic value on a degree over and above anything else. What we need is decent apprenticeships and work based training as well as proper career guidance in senior schools.

There are non- vocational disciplines which have currency, which are traditional subjects which show academic and intellectual rigour. These tend to require at least Bs at a level and are from top universities.

Then there are vocational degrees which are necessary or helpful for your chosen career studies. These tends to be the ones that make people glaze over.

Then there are the mickey mouse ones which are done by people who don't really know what they want to do in life but quite fancy university and don't want to get a job.

I have 2 nephews. One dropped out of his a levels, got a job at tesco and is now on their management training programme as he impressed them so much.

My other nephew did badly in his a levels but got on a course which required 3 es. He does little work during term time and has absolutely no work experience to put on his cv when he graduates next year.

Ther

Many degrees in arts/humanities subjects will be developing skills of research, creativity, debate, analysis and many other transferable skills. A vocational degree may prepare someone to do a specific job, but it will be a narrower sort of education.

In any case, what is wrong with learning for its own sake? The world would be a worse place if no-one learned anything except the exact skills for their job. I think it's a big mistake to think that the only "valuable" learning is that which produces money or a visible product.

I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with learning for its own sake, but it's revolting to allow teenagers to believe that any degree whatsoever will basically allow them to take their pick between blue-chip graduate training programmes. I know loads of people who did a degree in something vague because they didn't know what they wanted to do, but had had it hammered into them that any degree shows potential employers that you're intelligent and dedicated enough to earn one, and who now work in customer support earning £16K.

Agree completely with fruitstick.

I don't understand why media studies is considered mickey mouse. I have friends who did this as their degree and it was a mixture of courses in journalism and sociology. I don't consider that mickey mouse. I tend to think people who talk of "mickey mouse"-courses are people who don't really understand what a university degree is and think you do a degree and then use what you learnt in your job. They understand medical degree because then you become a doctor. A lot of people also have a chip on their shoulder about degrees.

When I interview people for positions in my team at work, I hardly ever consider anyone without a degree and especially for junior positions CV's witout 2.1 degrees don't even get as far as to my desk to consider. The agency would never even send them to our HR dep. I employ people for banking positions, but I have employed people with media studies degrees. A degree tells me the person most likely have an ability to learn and apply themselves, can work to deadlines/targets/goals and are able to understand different types of arguments/have a flexible mind. A person who has been to Uni is likely to have mixed with a wide range of people with different backgrounds/nationalities and cultures which is a big bonus in a global bank. Of course you can have all these qualities without a degree, but how can I tell from your CV? I have to have some sort of filter or I would be forever interviewing. A degree is our first quality-check.

"When I was at college (an agricultural college) I remember that they offered full-time courses in green keeping!"

This and golf course management are often put forward as the classic, snigger snigger Mickey Mouse degrees.I think that people think that it is a degree in how to run a golf club.

Dh (who has a golf course management degree, is preparing to study for a masters in groundsmanship, and has a history degree as well) is a sports groundsman, he specialises in cricket.

I think that most people have a complete lack of understanding of what the degree entails, and thinks that all a sports groundsman does is mow grass (this is exactly what I thought before meeting dh), but it is a lot more technical than that-especially with cricket, where the quality of the wicket is integral to the game.

On fairymum's point then - as more people do degrees, then the filter will need to be tightened more and more to reduce the number of people who should be interviewed. So - putting teens through a degree course when it is apparent from the outset that they are never likely to achieve more than a 2-2 or a 3rd would be fairly pointless as they are going to get filtered out before they ever get to interview.

So this goes back to "horses for courses" and bringing back apprenticeships, vocational qualifications that are seen to be as valuable as a degree in the employment field so that everyone has the best chance to maximise their own employment potential.

Better than spending 3 years struggling with a course that might get them nowhere except into debt.

I saw a degree (BA Hons, I am so not kidding) in 'Adventure' in UCAS clearing lists a few years ago. Wish I'd signed up now...

Sports Science is incredibly science based. My uni (very well known Russell Group) requires AAA at A Level. There is no requirement for any kind of sporting ability, but science A levels are a must have.

I also saw a past paper for first year Golf Management Studies - again, very scientific, it was all physics and mathematical work.

My degree would probably be considered MM due to it's name and multi-disciplinary nature - but I have modules in History, Politics, Philosophy, Psychology with aspects of Law, Human Geography and Biology thrown in.

'Sports Science is incredibly science based. My uni (very well known Russell Group) requires AAA at A Level. There is no requirement for any kind of sporting ability, but science A levels are a must have.'
I'm genuinely surprised to hear that.I know quite a number of sports science graduates, and they are all as thick as 2 short planks.

Also I have a very good friend who is a journalist on a very large regional paper (previously worked on a national).Her degree is in Eng Lit and she says there is a mixture of graduates and non-graduates (some without even GCSEs).All that matters is proven track record and ability to do the job.

Bullshit Studies Fine Art.

I smoked out of a window for three years and then someone gave me a degree. I had a staggering two hours of lectures a week. But also the best time of my life.

What do I do now? Teacher. Quelle surprise

sports science has become very fashionable over the last 10ish years.

The most popular subjects, regardless of discipline or toughness of subject, also have very high entry requirements to reduce the high number of applications.

LeQueen I'm with you (again) (I'm not stalking you honest.) I snoozed through 5 hours a week of English Lit lectures, emerged fat and beer-addled three years later incredulously clutching a 2:1.

Fairymum - I am a (tres important) managing director of a medium size company and the last thing I care about is whether a prospective employee has a degree or not. It's all about their experience and personality.

Anyone who's clever enough to do Maths will be reading Maths and it is HARD!!

They won't be muffing about with golf-friggin-studies

If you wanted a job as a Physio, you will have to do the full degree, not noncey sports science.

It is elitist snobbery in my eyes and I agree with it. If my dc's expect to be assisted through Uni it will be on the provision that it isn't something MM just so they can experience Uni.

LeQueen - you are absoluteky right in your post of last night, about £20K for a shitty degree from a lousy institution.

Not all degrees are the same - employers know it, UCAS knows it, the schools know it, the universoties know it. However, if you are an unsuspecting pupil, you are likely to be conned into studying one of these courses unless you are very careful.

£20K in debt for absolutely nothing. It is a scandalous waste of money.

I did a Mickey Mouse degree in Communication and Cultural Studies with Public Media about 25 years ago - I was probably a trailblazer for such things. I even studied Mickey Mouse, well Walt Disney, and did a big essay on him. So ner.

In all seriousness, though, part of my degree was work placement at newspapers, which directly led to me getting the job I still have now. So double ner.

I haven't got a degree in anything, but I do have 26 years of work experience, having left school at 16.

No-one encouraged me to go for it, and in my twenties, early thirties I regretted it slightly, but my experience stood me in good stead and I probably ended up with a better career than I would have had, if I had just left Uni with everyone else.

At 21 I was running an office with 30 people in it, the thought of which absolutely scares the life out of me now.

But I do feel sorry for the teens of today who just follow the herd to "Uni" regardless of the course, because there are no other opportunities. Another three or four years down the line, they are up to their eyes in debt and still no real guarantee of employment.

I hope by the time my boys are grown up there is another way.